A Love Supreme Live in Seattle

 Audio tape from the Joe Brazil collection containing A Love Supreme recorded October 2, 1965 in Seattle.

Joe Brazil Interview by Paul de Barros (excerpt)

On October 3, 1989, Paul de Barros interviewed Joe Brazil for Jackson Street After Hours. Paul shared a 50-page transcript with me and Virginia Brazil gave me permission to publish it. Below is an excerpt where Brazil talks about Coltrane.

PdeB: How did the "Live in Seattle" session come about? 

JB: Oh, "Live in Seattle" was a thing that was really associated with “Om.” Now, "Live in Seattle," now I'm not sure when that was recorded. What I mean by that is we were playing the same way all week. I sat in with 'Trane during the entire week there, because 'Trane stayed with me in Detroit when he first got his band together. And I gave him a map to get to California. At that time he had McCoy Tyner on piano, Steve Davis, I think, was playing drums and Reggie Workman was playing bass…yeah, the Coltrane original quartet.

But anyway, so, in the meantime, before that, [there were] several times when he'd come through with Cannonball [Adderley], I mean with Miles [Davis], you know. We'd hang out, chat, talk, discuss music and that kind of thing. And so we traded a lot of ideas, and that kind of thing, so usually, four or five of us saxophone players would be together. It'd be Yusef [Lateef], Joe Henderson, myself, [Kenneth] “Koko” Winfrey and 'Trane. And we'd just practice, and talk, and whatever, you know – and share ideas, you know? 'Trane was always absorbing as well as giving. He was very open to stuff, but he was also—“What was that?” you know? He’d tell you what he was doing. You ask him what he was doing, but he was like learning, you know, in a sense not so much learning but absorbing, we'll say, as much as he was sharing. He was a guy who was relentlessly practicing. He practiced six, seven, eight hours a day.

PdeB: So, when he came out here, he was staying with you. 

JB: Oh, yeah. A couple of times. Yes. Sometimes he came with bands. When he came with Miles, he stayed with the band or stayed with the hotel. We'd just get together. When he came out with his own band, then he’d stay with me.

PdeB: And that was that week at the Penthouse?

JB: Ummmmmm. No, no, no, no. When I say stayed with me, I'm talking about in Detroit.

PdeB: Oh! Okay. I'm sorry.

JB: I do that, too, sometimes too. I'll get on the microphone and say Detroit even though I’m in Tacoma, only staying one year. I don't know if I've ever made the shift yet. (laughter from both) It's really kind of strange.

PdeB: So out here how did the session come together?

JB: Oh! The "Live in Seattle" thing. I think what happened is that we were reading the Bhagavad Gita. I had about 10 versions of the Gita, the Hindu Bible. And 'Trane was interested in some of those versions that I had. Now I never did know really what his background was as far as studying different philosophies and religion, that kind of thing, but we’d start chanting “om” one day, at the gig, on these oms, we're playing. We had two bass players at the time. Who’s the guy in Chicago who’s playing bass on that? I can't think of the player. He's kind of an avant-garde-ish player, too.

PdeB: It's uh… it's uh… Oh, and he also had two names.

JB: Right. He had another name too. Played clarinet a little bit… I can't even think of his name. But anyway we – of course, Elvin and Jimmy Garrison. Donald Garrett.

PdeB: There we go. Garrett.

JB: Donald Garrett. We had two bass players, a drummer, plus McCoy, 'Trane and myself, and Pharoah Sanders was also on the gig. So, just during the week, I had the privilege of sitting in with him most of that week, he invited me up. Now, talking about avant-garde playing, which we were kind of doing at that time, newer sounds, at least.  And I call myself – I didn't really know what I was doing. I'm trying to play new, you know? and 'Trane said, "Oh wow! You sound just like we do.” And I say, "Well, not to me." (laughter from both) But I did a couple of, just, of our own recordings…I think I may have some tape of that somewhere if I can find it. But I didn't even know that was being recorded for a recording then. So they probably – somebody either just took some recordings or did some recordings live at the club. But it was it similar to [inaudible] a studio to do “Om” That was done in Woodinville, Washington. It was the only guy, at that time, who had some kind of recording studio. In other words, the big studios [that are now] downtown didn't exist at that time. ‘Trane was looking for a place to record, and I don’t know how we found this place. I can't even think of the guy's name who recorded it.

PdeB: I've talked to him – 

JB: – Yeah, right, it was in Woodinville, or somewhere, in his garage?

PdeB:  He lives up in Everett now. 

JB: Yeah, but I think this recording was done…

PdeB: Was it Woodinville? I don't know. 

JB: It was someplace up in Washington. And it was in his garage.

PdeB: Or Lynnwood?

JB: Lynnwood!! Maybe it was Lynnwood. But he had a little garage or something he had set, he had a big room and had all these little mics and stuff. And we went out there to record. In fact, we rode out in a Chrysler, because I drove out here. My old Imperial. The thing that's kind of interesting, the door had a real loud squeak on it. You open it,” e-r-r-r-r!” Needed oiling I guess. And 'Trane loved the sound of that squeak. He was thinking at one time to running a microphone out and have somebody just opening and closing that door – while we were recording. But we never did it. But somehow, he was fascinated by the sound of that door. “E-r-r-r!” Some pitch, you know? And the ironic thing about it is the door had a problem. And it got closed, jammed one time. And I don't think the door ever really got opened any time since then, I mean [it was an] old car, it’s been sold and junked – I was going to save it, and restore it – but anyway, that door was for many years never even opened anymore. It got jammed shut. Maybe that was some kind of omen.

PdeB: Yeah.

JB: So apparently they recorded that in the studio, but it's something like “Om,” kind of, you know, in a sense. That free-ish thing. You just played for what? 40 minutes? Or 50 minutes? whatever it turned out to be, you know.

PdeB: Now this guy who taped “Om” says that there's also all these out-takes of that session.

JB: Out-takes? Meaning what, now?

 PdeB: Just other stuff that didn't come on the record.

JB: Oh! Oh! Oh yeah, probably. Yes. Right. Yeah. But I even did a solo on it on flute. You see I played a wooden flute of Coltrane's on it, too. And I don’t think – well I know the introduction part is still there, because as they were doing this talk, or when he was reciting, I guess you would say, from the Bhagavad Gita, I was playing the flute part on it, yeah. But it seems like there were some other things on there, too.

But I was thinking of another kind of a rock 'n roll – not so much rock 'n roll but pop songs that I did some recording on soprano with, who’s the vibes player? He had all these guys, all Virgos, I’m a Virgo, too [inaudible]. What the heck is his name?

PdeB: Here?

JB: Yeah, right. We recorded it in Seattle, and it's called – not "Maiden Voyage" but something like a voyage. "Mystic Voyage." But who's the vibes player?

PdeB: Not [Tom] Collier? 

JB: No, no, he's not from here, he's a national artist. But he's not quite a jazz – he did play very good jazz at one point, and he played with a lot of national people. But he kind of went into a kind of a commercial sound and I can't think of his name now.

PdeB: Tjader?

JB: Not Cal Tjader. It's a Black dude. What the hell is his name? He travelled around quite a bit and he kind of – for a while, didn’t they do this make-up thing for a while? Making their faces all…? But he was actually a good jazz vibist, too, and he played with – seemed like he – even though Tjader was a vibes player, seems like he played with Tjader at one point or something like that. I don't know whether they had two vibes, or something. I think he played on piano. But I can't even think of his name now. Roy…

PdeB: Ayers!!

JB: Roy Ayers. Yeah, right. He used to be in my class and all that, too. And I recorded with him, called "Mystic Voyage." I did soprano on that record, right. But it was one of those things where the group is singing and all that too. You were talking about out-takes, I did some solos on that one, but they were edited out.

PdeB: Well, the reason I mentioned it is that what we hear is that Impulse is going to bring out MCA's –

JB:  Oh, Impulse got the whole thing. 

PdeB: You already know about it?

JB: No, I don't know. I know Impulse got the whole thing because it was recorded on Impulse. I know it was released on Impulse - by accident. Did you –?

PdeB: – No, I didn't know that.

JB: You didn't hear about that? That's what I heard. I heard that somebody had sent for “Kulu Sé Mama” in Europe, somewhere. And somehow this take got in the jacket, by mistake. And somebody heard this and said, "What is that?" And somehow, they liked it. "Well, it sounds okay to us." And I don't know if it got released in Europe first or whatever, but then after somebody say, "Oh, that's great. Give us some more," whatever, you know, then they finally released it here, but I think it was an accident that it got released, at least [that’s] what I heard – 

PdeB: – "Om" or "Live in Seattle"?

JB: "Om." That's what I heard, I’m not sure. I don't even know where even I heard that story from. But I used to talk to 'Trane occasionally on the phone, you know. We’d chit-chat, talk about this that and the other, you know?

PdeB: When that session happened, were you surprised by the music they were making? 

[23:36]

JB: Oh, very much so. As a matter of fact, I've even talked to McCoy about it. And others. But you don't really remember the occurrence, you're so involved in the music, you're almost like you’re in a different state of existence or being. And it happens quite often when you get in those [inaudible] of complete creativity, you're almost like taken out of the scene. And I think that happens quite often with jazz musicians. People be looking at them and sometimes they’re going through various gyrations, you know. But when you're really involved in the music, you're not aware of the audience or self or whatever because everything is clicking as a harmonious group.

Now, mostly in the commercial scene you're trying to see who's laughing, who's buying beer, you know, you're trying to make sure everybody’s happy and all that kind of thing. But when you're really creating on a higher level like that, sometimes – and I guess 'Trane had done it many times, and I’ve had the good fortune, a few times, you know, of reaching that state. So you don't really recall it totally, at least I don’t. and McCoy said he didn’t.

'Trane didn't want to hear it back mainly because, he says, "Well, I just don't want to be influenced by those kinds of things." But one time he says, "I've often wondered what I sound like." He was very conscious of wanting the people to enjoy the music. But he said, “I've often wondered what music would sound like – what my music would sound like – if I heard it the first time.”

Because one kind of incidence – did you see Jim Wilke's picture in there?

PdeB: I have that magazine. Yes.

JB: With him, with the classic cap? 

PdeB: Yes. Yes.

JB: But I remember Jim Wilke at the Penthouse when 'Trane was playing there. And so he said, “You know he sounds like he's angry to me." And I said, “Well no, it's not anger, you know, I mean you may, you may – I think what happens is you're coming from a perception of where you are at the moment." You know what I mean? But, because some people may look at that music as hostile, you know, because the way jazz musicians are – 

PdeB: – Oh, a lot of people did, I remember.

JB: You know, these cats slobbering (laughter) and whatever else, you know. “Oh, those guys were pretty mad!” No, but what you're trying to do is you’ve reached another state of consciousness and you’re trying to do, and somehow you – maybe you take it out of body. You’re just creating to the fullest of your thing. And it's really enjoyable. It's not painful, you know what I mean? I mean you're in a state of being where you're really exhilarated. You’re really enjoying what you're doing, at least as far as what I can kind of feel myself. And so, it may appear, because of the – you’re striving, whatever you're doing, you’re grimacing, and you’re looking strange, you know, and to that, it seems like pain to some other people outside, because when we [are in] pain when we do that. But no, it's no pain at all, really, it's maybe a striving to do better. Because I think 'Trane and Dizzy and Miles and whoever are trying to reach a certain sound that will reach a certain center of consciousness that could make people more aware, more friendly, better, make the universe, make the – at least the country, a little bit better, the earth a little bit better. So, I think that was really the motivation for them doing some of the things they were doing. You know, the Albert Ayler’s, and those kind of people who’ve done that kind of thing, and probably any musician that is really into his music that way – even guys like Barry Harris, or Tommy Flanagan, you know.

PdeB: But you were one of the people who brought that consciousness here. It's real clear to me.

JB: I wasn't aware of that. That's the first time I've heard of that. I mean I never even thought about that.

 PdeB: That music could heighten your consciousness and that it was really a concentrated effort to do that. I'm curious – 

JB: – I never knew that.