tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-65702168449018991702024-02-19T07:09:46.199-08:00Joe Brazil ProjectThe life and impact of jazz saxophonist Joe BrazilSteve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.comBlogger93125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-68094922655619520902021-08-27T08:20:00.004-07:002021-08-27T08:24:04.404-07:00A Love Supreme Live in Seattle<p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhSVwJrqkpM_VjyylJQRGguUB6BjqVBrl2DAIE45RLC5ecwmaD_E8TzFc2j3oM6eCtJlBf1qgkRewFhr3L99FwHQlHPA0C9lRWo8-_1DCzEwZz-9K2Fl5pESRG5LuUekxZ7fe2NOjH3Fyk/s2048/Tape005.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1536" data-original-width="2048" height="358" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhSVwJrqkpM_VjyylJQRGguUB6BjqVBrl2DAIE45RLC5ecwmaD_E8TzFc2j3oM6eCtJlBf1qgkRewFhr3L99FwHQlHPA0C9lRWo8-_1DCzEwZz-9K2Fl5pESRG5LuUekxZ7fe2NOjH3Fyk/w477-h358/Tape005.jpg" width="477" /></a></div><br /> Audio tape from the Joe Brazil collection containing A Love Supreme recorded October 2, 1965 in Seattle.<p></p>Steve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-15274108817314144462021-08-03T07:01:00.000-07:002021-08-03T07:01:45.515-07:00Joe Brazil Interview by Paul de Barros (excerpt)<p>On October 3, 1989, Paul de Barros interviewed Joe Brazil for <i>Jackson Street After Hours</i>. Paul shared a 50-page transcript with me and Virginia Brazil gave me permission to publish it. Below is an excerpt where Brazil talks about Coltrane.</p><p>PdeB: How did the "Live in Seattle" session come about? </p><p>JB: Oh, "Live in Seattle" was a thing that was really associated with “Om.” Now, "Live in Seattle," now I'm not sure when that was recorded. What I mean by that is we were playing the same way all week. I sat in with 'Trane during the entire week there, because 'Trane stayed with me in Detroit when he first got his band together. And I gave him a map to get to California. At that time he had McCoy Tyner on piano, Steve Davis, I think, was playing drums and Reggie Workman was playing bass…yeah, the Coltrane original quartet.</p><p>But anyway, so, in the meantime, before that, [there were] several times when he'd come through with Cannonball [Adderley], I mean with Miles [Davis], you know. We'd hang out, chat, talk, discuss music and that kind of thing. And so we traded a lot of ideas, and that kind of thing, so usually, four or five of us saxophone players would be together. It'd be Yusef [Lateef], Joe Henderson, myself, [Kenneth] “Koko” Winfrey and 'Trane. And we'd just practice, and talk, and whatever, you know – and share ideas, you know? 'Trane was always absorbing as well as giving. He was very open to stuff, but he was also—“What was that?” you know? He’d tell you what he was doing. You ask him what he was doing, but he was like learning, you know, in a sense not so much learning but absorbing, we'll say, as much as he was sharing. He was a guy who was relentlessly practicing. He practiced six, seven, eight hours a day.</p><p>PdeB: So, when he came out here, he was staying with you. </p><p>JB: Oh, yeah. A couple of times. Yes. Sometimes he came with bands. When he came with Miles, he stayed with the band or stayed with the hotel. We'd just get together. When he came out with his own band, then he’d stay with me.</p><p>PdeB: And that was that week at the Penthouse?</p><p>JB: Ummmmmm. No, no, no, no. When I say stayed with me, I'm talking about in Detroit.</p><p>PdeB: Oh! Okay. I'm sorry.</p><p>JB: I do that, too, sometimes too. I'll get on the microphone and say Detroit even though I’m in Tacoma, only staying one year. I don't know if I've ever made the shift yet. (laughter from both) It's really kind of strange.</p><p>PdeB: So out here how did the session come together?</p><p>JB: Oh! The "Live in Seattle" thing. I think what happened is that we were reading the Bhagavad Gita. I had about 10 versions of the Gita, the Hindu Bible. And 'Trane was interested in some of those versions that I had. Now I never did know really what his background was as far as studying different philosophies and religion, that kind of thing, but we’d start chanting “om” one day, at the gig, on these oms, we're playing. We had two bass players at the time. Who’s the guy in Chicago who’s playing bass on that? I can't think of the player. He's kind of an avant-garde-ish player, too.</p><p>PdeB: It's uh… it's uh… Oh, and he also had two names.</p><p>JB: Right. He had another name too. Played clarinet a little bit… I can't even think of his name. But anyway we – of course, Elvin and Jimmy Garrison. Donald Garrett.</p><p>PdeB: There we go. Garrett.</p><p>JB: Donald Garrett. We had two bass players, a drummer, plus McCoy, 'Trane and myself, and Pharoah Sanders was also on the gig. So, just during the week, I had the privilege of sitting in with him most of that week, he invited me up. Now, talking about avant-garde playing, which we were kind of doing at that time, newer sounds, at least. And I call myself – I didn't really know what I was doing. I'm trying to play new, you know? and 'Trane said, "Oh wow! You sound just like we do.” And I say, "Well, not to me." (laughter from both) But I did a couple of, just, of our own recordings…I think I may have some tape of that somewhere if I can find it. But I didn't even know that was being recorded for a recording then. So they probably – somebody either just took some recordings or did some recordings live at the club. But it was it similar to [inaudible] a studio to do “Om” That was done in Woodinville, Washington. It was the only guy, at that time, who had some kind of recording studio. In other words, the big studios [that are now] downtown didn't exist at that time. ‘Trane was looking for a place to record, and I don’t know how we found this place. I can't even think of the guy's name who recorded it.</p><p>PdeB: I've talked to him – </p><p>JB: – Yeah, right, it was in Woodinville, or somewhere, in his garage?</p><p>PdeB: He lives up in Everett now. </p><p>JB: Yeah, but I think this recording was done…</p><p>PdeB: Was it Woodinville? I don't know. </p><p>JB: It was someplace up in Washington. And it was in his garage.</p><p>PdeB: Or Lynnwood?</p><p>JB: Lynnwood!! Maybe it was Lynnwood. But he had a little garage or something he had set, he had a big room and had all these little mics and stuff. And we went out there to record. In fact, we rode out in a Chrysler, because I drove out here. My old Imperial. The thing that's kind of interesting, the door had a real loud squeak on it. You open it,” e-r-r-r-r!” Needed oiling I guess. And 'Trane loved the sound of that squeak. He was thinking at one time to running a microphone out and have somebody just opening and closing that door – while we were recording. But we never did it. But somehow, he was fascinated by the sound of that door. “E-r-r-r!” Some pitch, you know? And the ironic thing about it is the door had a problem. And it got closed, jammed one time. And I don't think the door ever really got opened any time since then, I mean [it was an] old car, it’s been sold and junked – I was going to save it, and restore it – but anyway, that door was for many years never even opened anymore. It got jammed shut. Maybe that was some kind of omen.</p><p>PdeB: Yeah.</p><p>JB: So apparently they recorded that in the studio, but it's something like “Om,” kind of, you know, in a sense. That free-ish thing. You just played for what? 40 minutes? Or 50 minutes? whatever it turned out to be, you know.</p><p>PdeB: Now this guy who taped “Om” says that there's also all these out-takes of that session.</p><p>JB: Out-takes? Meaning what, now?</p><p> PdeB: Just other stuff that didn't come on the record.</p><p>JB: Oh! Oh! Oh yeah, probably. Yes. Right. Yeah. But I even did a solo on it on flute. You see I played a wooden flute of Coltrane's on it, too. And I don’t think – well I know the introduction part is still there, because as they were doing this talk, or when he was reciting, I guess you would say, from the Bhagavad Gita, I was playing the flute part on it, yeah. But it seems like there were some other things on there, too.</p><p>But I was thinking of another kind of a rock 'n roll – not so much rock 'n roll but pop songs that I did some recording on soprano with, who’s the vibes player? He had all these guys, all Virgos, I’m a Virgo, too [inaudible]. What the heck is his name?</p><p>PdeB: Here?</p><p>JB: Yeah, right. We recorded it in Seattle, and it's called – not "Maiden Voyage" but something like a voyage. "Mystic Voyage." But who's the vibes player?</p><p>PdeB: Not [Tom] Collier? </p><p>JB: No, no, he's not from here, he's a national artist. But he's not quite a jazz – he did play very good jazz at one point, and he played with a lot of national people. But he kind of went into a kind of a commercial sound and I can't think of his name now.</p><p>PdeB: Tjader?</p><p>JB: Not Cal Tjader. It's a Black dude. What the hell is his name? He travelled around quite a bit and he kind of – for a while, didn’t they do this make-up thing for a while? Making their faces all…? But he was actually a good jazz vibist, too, and he played with – seemed like he – even though Tjader was a vibes player, seems like he played with Tjader at one point or something like that. I don't know whether they had two vibes, or something. I think he played on piano. But I can't even think of his name now. Roy…</p><p>PdeB: Ayers!!</p><p>JB: Roy Ayers. Yeah, right. He used to be in my class and all that, too. And I recorded with him, called "Mystic Voyage." I did soprano on that record, right. But it was one of those things where the group is singing and all that too. You were talking about out-takes, I did some solos on that one, but they were edited out.</p><p>PdeB: Well, the reason I mentioned it is that what we hear is that Impulse is going to bring out MCA's –</p><p>JB: Oh, Impulse got the whole thing. </p><p>PdeB: You already know about it?</p><p>JB: No, I don't know. I know Impulse got the whole thing because it was recorded on Impulse. I know it was released on Impulse - by accident. Did you –?</p><p>PdeB: – No, I didn't know that.</p><p>JB: You didn't hear about that? That's what I heard. I heard that somebody had sent for “Kulu Sé Mama” in Europe, somewhere. And somehow this take got in the jacket, by mistake. And somebody heard this and said, "What is that?" And somehow, they liked it. "Well, it sounds okay to us." And I don't know if it got released in Europe first or whatever, but then after somebody say, "Oh, that's great. Give us some more," whatever, you know, then they finally released it here, but I think it was an accident that it got released, at least [that’s] what I heard – </p><p>PdeB: – "Om" or "Live in Seattle"?</p><p>JB: "Om." That's what I heard, I’m not sure. I don't even know where even I heard that story from. But I used to talk to 'Trane occasionally on the phone, you know. We’d chit-chat, talk about this that and the other, you know?</p><p>PdeB: When that session happened, were you surprised by the music they were making? </p><p>[23:36]</p><p>JB: Oh, very much so. As a matter of fact, I've even talked to McCoy about it. And others. But you don't really remember the occurrence, you're so involved in the music, you're almost like you’re in a different state of existence or being. And it happens quite often when you get in those [inaudible] of complete creativity, you're almost like taken out of the scene. And I think that happens quite often with jazz musicians. People be looking at them and sometimes they’re going through various gyrations, you know. But when you're really involved in the music, you're not aware of the audience or self or whatever because everything is clicking as a harmonious group.</p><p>Now, mostly in the commercial scene you're trying to see who's laughing, who's buying beer, you know, you're trying to make sure everybody’s happy and all that kind of thing. But when you're really creating on a higher level like that, sometimes – and I guess 'Trane had done it many times, and I’ve had the good fortune, a few times, you know, of reaching that state. So you don't really recall it totally, at least I don’t. and McCoy said he didn’t.</p><p>'Trane didn't want to hear it back mainly because, he says, "Well, I just don't want to be influenced by those kinds of things." But one time he says, "I've often wondered what I sound like." He was very conscious of wanting the people to enjoy the music. But he said, “I've often wondered what music would sound like – what my music would sound like – if I heard it the first time.”</p><p>Because one kind of incidence – did you see Jim Wilke's picture in there?</p><p>PdeB: I have that magazine. Yes.</p><p>JB: With him, with the classic cap? </p><p>PdeB: Yes. Yes.</p><p>JB: But I remember Jim Wilke at the Penthouse when 'Trane was playing there. And so he said, “You know he sounds like he's angry to me." And I said, “Well no, it's not anger, you know, I mean you may, you may – I think what happens is you're coming from a perception of where you are at the moment." You know what I mean? But, because some people may look at that music as hostile, you know, because the way jazz musicians are – </p><p>PdeB: – Oh, a lot of people did, I remember.</p><p>JB: You know, these cats slobbering (laughter) and whatever else, you know. “Oh, those guys were pretty mad!” No, but what you're trying to do is you’ve reached another state of consciousness and you’re trying to do, and somehow you – maybe you take it out of body. You’re just creating to the fullest of your thing. And it's really enjoyable. It's not painful, you know what I mean? I mean you're in a state of being where you're really exhilarated. You’re really enjoying what you're doing, at least as far as what I can kind of feel myself. And so, it may appear, because of the – you’re striving, whatever you're doing, you’re grimacing, and you’re looking strange, you know, and to that, it seems like pain to some other people outside, because when we [are in] pain when we do that. But no, it's no pain at all, really, it's maybe a striving to do better. Because I think 'Trane and Dizzy and Miles and whoever are trying to reach a certain sound that will reach a certain center of consciousness that could make people more aware, more friendly, better, make the universe, make the – at least the country, a little bit better, the earth a little bit better. So, I think that was really the motivation for them doing some of the things they were doing. You know, the Albert Ayler’s, and those kind of people who’ve done that kind of thing, and probably any musician that is really into his music that way – even guys like Barry Harris, or Tommy Flanagan, you know.</p><p>PdeB: But you were one of the people who brought that consciousness here. It's real clear to me.</p><p>JB: I wasn't aware of that. That's the first time I've heard of that. I mean I never even thought about that.</p><p> PdeB: That music could heighten your consciousness and that it was really a concentrated effort to do that. I'm curious – </p><p>JB: – I never knew that.</p><div><br /></div>Steve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-43882020163559742152021-05-31T20:17:00.003-07:002021-06-02T19:34:25.785-07:00A Cup of Joe Brazil Script<p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br /></div>[Play “Joseph Brazil”]<p></p><p></p><p></p><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi1eMmcXdws8fquW9WsiZEYu4DC-sSYVdLndhTcUyuN-165-uw-EHAbY4736UCqCoWJZlicwbK5bV5jK8ljGgDKux0EDPeOsPLxNBmFA8_G0zURArO2hdA_GWEQHHlccrHn4esGSohRvDg/s1602/ACupofJoeBrazilfront.jpg" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1602" data-original-width="1602" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi1eMmcXdws8fquW9WsiZEYu4DC-sSYVdLndhTcUyuN-165-uw-EHAbY4736UCqCoWJZlicwbK5bV5jK8ljGgDKux0EDPeOsPLxNBmFA8_G0zURArO2hdA_GWEQHHlccrHn4esGSohRvDg/s320/ACupofJoeBrazilfront.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">My tribute to Brazil's story</td></tr></tbody></table>Joseph Brazil. I never had the pleasure of meeting him before he passed in 2008. Even though he is not here physically, I feel his spirit and he continues to teach me about music, society, and myself.<p></p><p></p><p>But he is not the first dead musician to mentor me. First, was John Coltrane. He died in 1967, when I was seven. About 11 years after he died, I finally heard his music on a record and was entranced. The song that first got me was “Village Blues.” </p><p>[Band plays Village Blues quietly]</p><p>John Coltrane had been studying Spirituals - the simple melodies sung by slaves gathered in a circle after church services. The words spoke of hardship and freedom. Even though the subjects were often biblical, the meaning was personal – someday freedom will come. The rhythms were slow and repetitious, like the work songs used to row, dig, plant, and pick. They were chants that entranced the singer to give strength. The communal music could endure long hours, harsh conditions, brutal oppression. Spirituals fed the soul.</p><p></p><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiJh9vc6WYk3_Gyayd2KscSv0XDxAT05_EoddMvMCncVdpy3GKOkHIzRMZbRyFNWnUa-r3v4TsMMsLdkzUcyCjZ0gKwg2tFHxtQU8YtsFl7-0MOHB3vRaeiQIX04TxXAPpvPDJaYRn6Z28/s500/Coltrane+Jazz.jpg" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="500" data-original-width="500" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiJh9vc6WYk3_Gyayd2KscSv0XDxAT05_EoddMvMCncVdpy3GKOkHIzRMZbRyFNWnUa-r3v4TsMMsLdkzUcyCjZ0gKwg2tFHxtQU8YtsFl7-0MOHB3vRaeiQIX04TxXAPpvPDJaYRn6Z28/s320/Coltrane+Jazz.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">"Village Blues" on <i>Coltrane Jazz</i></td></tr></tbody></table>“Village Blues” sounds like a spiritual. The bass repeats a three-note figure in the rhythm of the title – short, short, long…short, short, long…short, short, long. The piano harmonizes with intervals of fourths and fifths, common among musical descendants of West Africa. The melody is a simple figure alternating between just two chord tones for each of the three chords of the minor blues form. The drums fill in between the phrases with triplet chatter, a stirring, whirling, circular motion like leaves in a vortex of wind, or dervishes spinning in ecstasy. The sound evokes something older, almost ancient, enduring, vital, resolute.<p></p><p>That sound caught my heart and became one of my favorite things. Although my psyche was naïve to the wound of slavery, the music embodying the human spirit that endured that oppression awakened empathy to those struggling for freedom. Under the spell of the sound, I would search all my life to get close to its source – and dedicate my life to music.</p><p>I listened to every Coltrane record I could find. I wanted to play music with that deep vibe, music that put you in a trance and evoked a weighty sincerity. The things that stood out to me were the sound of the whole band, that everyone played an equal part – supporting each other so that the music surpassed any individual talent, and that the sound was a musical abstraction of feelings, events, and people.</p><p>[Band stops]</p><p>So when I moved to Seattle, I wanted to find out about the time that Coltrane played here. Coltrane came to Seattle in 1965 to play a week at the Penthouse, a jazz club at the corner of 1st and Cherry. He paid out of his own pocket for a live recording at the club and another in a Lynnwood studio. The music sounded crazy. People were chanting, drums bashing, horns squealing. I couldn’t pick out any recognizable melody or form. It sounded like freedom – spirits unleashed. Emotive motifs turned up to 11!</p><p>There was one name on the record I had never heard before, Joe Brazil. Who was he? How did he get involved with Coltrane? What was he doing in Seattle? What was this music about? I was used to learning about famous musicians through lots of commercial recordings. Who was this obscure person? What could I learn from him? I made it my mission to find out. </p><p></p><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEguix2yI1RnUgyJFWn-XsYptOpeUxT_7-1Nx67Pq1srnJLmx2XTO_J9rNppTH3IBjvFas9A4CO471AgHUdopyT_2YbM2WgnbttdS2xC4y5BWKfnCqGQ9-q2GNGvCyODfaFwkfXNFd_C13Q/s1600/Piano.jpg" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1195" data-original-width="1600" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEguix2yI1RnUgyJFWn-XsYptOpeUxT_7-1Nx67Pq1srnJLmx2XTO_J9rNppTH3IBjvFas9A4CO471AgHUdopyT_2YbM2WgnbttdS2xC4y5BWKfnCqGQ9-q2GNGvCyODfaFwkfXNFd_C13Q/s320/Piano.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Coltrane's cigarette burn on Brazil's low "A"</td></tr></tbody></table>I found out that Joe lived in Seattle and in 1965, Coltrane stayed at Joe’s house that week. I even saw a cigarette burn on Joe’s piano left by Coltrane. I heard that Joe sat in with Coltrane every night that week. The band rode to the Lynnwood studio in Joe’s Chrysler Imperial. The car had a squeaky door that Coltrane wanted to use on the record. <p></p><p>But the story of Joe and Coltrane starts ten years earlier in Detroit. Before Motown, there were the roots of Rhythm and Blues, Boogaloo, and Jazz.</p><p>[Play Detroit]</p><p>1950’s Detroit was a hot bed of jazz. The best musicians from New York had to practice before traveling there because the level of skill in the bands at the local venues was so high. Like many Detroit musicians, Joe Brazil was working at an auto factory during the day. At night, he listened to records, practiced, hit the clubs, and sat in with some of the best artists in the world. He set up his basement with a piano and invited musicians to come over and jam. Joe’s basement was where local musicians rubbed elbows with the touring talent in all night sessions outside of public view. </p><p></p><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgkqo1dCXlDsS2tG9OjH9kWACSA7pWHNvBjL8Udn2TbF-vUlbBo2lbKWpqtGt-IIkPKaN8EbRilRauRvhnqvwu1h-BIc1LVaGMSKtj4sgiz6ilbeZvxYAIiv915dU07XbsDM4TQgU_0vGQ/s2048/20141030_130442.jpg" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1536" data-original-width="2048" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgkqo1dCXlDsS2tG9OjH9kWACSA7pWHNvBjL8Udn2TbF-vUlbBo2lbKWpqtGt-IIkPKaN8EbRilRauRvhnqvwu1h-BIc1LVaGMSKtj4sgiz6ilbeZvxYAIiv915dU07XbsDM4TQgU_0vGQ/s320/20141030_130442.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The basement entrance to Brazil's Detroit home</td></tr></tbody></table>A visit to Joe Brazil’s was thrilling. Imagine approaching the small house in Detroit dark at 2:30am. Muffled music from the basement window signals the jam session is underway. Inside the front door, younger and less experienced musicians huddle and line the stairway, listening. Friendly greetings and knowing nods usher any newcomer into the dim basement. Twenty musicians with trumpets, saxophones, and trombones stand shoulder to shoulder, caressing their instruments – listening intently to the rhythms, chords, and melodies bouncing between the performers. All lit by a single bulb above the piano. <p></p><p>Shouts, chuckles, and grins erupt when the soloist shifts into a higher gear and breaks free of inhibition. You see, it takes courage to put your sound on display for other musicians. Another soloist demonstrates a new technique. Intense practice has added new language to the improviser’s vocabulary and the jam session is a chance to display wit and cleverness while using those words in a musical sentence. A third soloist finds in their instrument a deeper spiritual quality of the human voice that embraces the joyful pain of living. Tone is everything. It binds the listener and performer at the most intimate and primal level.</p><p>A tall man, more like a boy, hunches over the shoulder of an upright bass, glistening forehead turned to watch the spidery fingers of his left hand dance up, down, and across the web of four parallel strings. The tips of his calloused fingers scissor rapidly like an archer sending volleys of sonic arrows into the bulls-eye hearts of chords prancing out of the piano. Another musician prays over the keyboard, sweat dripping on the ivories; his hands jab at clusters of notes to illuminate the path of the music, pointing to alternate routes, encouraging, tantalizing, and teasing the soloist. </p><p>Behind the drums, a man stares at the ceiling, his mouth gaping, his right hand shaking a stick that jitterbugs across a cymbal. The soloist, a saxophonist, stands still, eyes fixed on infinity, ears awash in improvisation. He tastes the bamboo reed and metal mouthpiece, and fills the room with his breath, fingers tapping out the ancient code he heard on a Charlie Parker record. Everyone in earshot receives the message – this guy dug deep into the record grooves and is sharing the jewels with his community. Most understand. The novices on the stairs crease their brows to place the notes. Where have I heard that before? Where is he going with this? Did you hear what the piano player just said? Man, I need to go practice!</p><p>At the top of the chorus, the saxophonist punctuates his phrase and turns to the trumpet player to his right. Within seconds, the trumpet echoes the saxophonist’s phrase, twisting, deconstructing, re-assembling the idea to fit the morphing chords of the song. But his sound is lower, quieter, less agitated because that’s his nature. His spirit comes out through the bell of his horn. He is finding his voice.</p><p>That’s why you are here. You open your instrument case, put it together, and gently blow warm air through the horn.</p><p>The trumpet player meets your eyes to pass the baton.</p><p>[Play Bebop in the Basement]</p><p>A frequent visitor to Brazil’s basement was saxophonist John Coltrane. Coltrane would come to Detroit many times in the 1950’s with Miles Davis and want to practice during the day and after the gig. Miles’ bass player Paul Chambers had lived at Joe’s house before joining Miles’ band so Coltrane found out about Joe and started using Joe’s house as a place to work on music when he was in Detroit. By the time Coltrane was bringing his own band to Detroit, Coltrane skipped the hotel entirely and stayed at Joe’s house. Coltrane, Brazil, and a handful of other saxophonists would share ideas, practice, and learn together in an informal but serious setting. I think this casual but passionate and collective way of learning would serve as a model for Joe’s teaching style in the future.</p><p></p><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgmM2VnV__h1mWe6b7oLF-oBQM1ZUH5SS4G4XmM-Ttw6zbOOrDkk2Fm4SETlB8RI_NovVJPVboE9_r6Cwf5KdWGsfNicKb0LSCfal0t2idzAWss-1zSDhKAmlQxfkXfjTmiWogmvhS_k3w/s737/Blue+Bird+Inn.jpg" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="365" data-original-width="737" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgmM2VnV__h1mWe6b7oLF-oBQM1ZUH5SS4G4XmM-Ttw6zbOOrDkk2Fm4SETlB8RI_NovVJPVboE9_r6Cwf5KdWGsfNicKb0LSCfal0t2idzAWss-1zSDhKAmlQxfkXfjTmiWogmvhS_k3w/s320/Blue+Bird+Inn.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">The site of some recordings by Brazil</td></tr></tbody></table>Joe liked to record live music. He often carried a reel to reel tape recorder to clubs. At the Blue Bird Inn he taped Miles Davis. At the Rouge Lounge he taped Clifford Brown, just four months before the young trumpeter was killed in a car crash. These tapes were private. He liked to listen to the tapes and study the music. <p></p><p>He also taped jam sessions at his home. Joe left behind a trove of audio tapes that document an important chapter in the development of the music and musicians that went on to achieve legendary status. I hope that one day the public will be able to hear this candid and intimate sound of informal music making. Joe and the few people who have heard these tapes are no longer with us. In Joe’s tape collection, I found one box labeled 3am Thanksgiving 1960 with the names John Coltrane, McCoy Tyner, and others. Coltrane and his band were in Detroit that week and staying at Joe’s house. I let my imagination ponder how that could have sounded.</p><p>[Play Thanksgiving]</p><p>By the end of the 1950’s, industrial work slowed in Detroit. Joe spotted an advertisement on the factory bulletin board – Boeing in Seattle was hiring. Joe got a job as a tool and die maker and moved out just as Century 21, the Seattle World’s Fair, got underway.</p><p>The contrast between Detroit and Seattle was stark. Joe stayed at the Y downtown and when he looked out his window he said to himself, “Where are all the black people?” Seattle was and still is one of the whitest cities in America. Joe had to search for blacks here. In other American cities, musical community leaders had wider influence – Horace Tapscott in Los Angeles, Julius Hemphill in St. Louis, Muhal Richard Abrams in Chicago. But Joe had migrated to a city with a small black community, so his influence was constrained.</p><p>During the day, Joe worked in manufacturing and studied at the University of Washington – mostly math and computer programming. But he never abandoned music. At night, Joe led a jazz ensemble called the Jazz Souls.</p><p>[Play Jazz Souls]</p><p></p><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgDmZM6oVKfxiv4iSgiXXtaLCRsE4t8XeEFRRjx3aR6z9zuN4qSKUJV90cYoatkkTej35jnWGLeLj7EuOPbvdB3xIVXeY1PUpqUQSfDr4bEYjFnljVdafifzADJPt1msGZswTOOpKdm5R8/s316/ColtraneOM.jpg" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="316" data-original-width="316" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgDmZM6oVKfxiv4iSgiXXtaLCRsE4t8XeEFRRjx3aR6z9zuN4qSKUJV90cYoatkkTej35jnWGLeLj7EuOPbvdB3xIVXeY1PUpqUQSfDr4bEYjFnljVdafifzADJPt1msGZswTOOpKdm5R8/s0/ColtraneOM.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Brazil plays Coltrane's African flute</td></tr></tbody></table>So when Coltrane came to Seattle in 1965, Joe Brazil and Coltrane reunited. For that week, around the clock, they were inseparable. They shared what they were working on in music and learning about spirituality. Coltrane was interested in the many versions of the Bhagavad Gita he found in Joe’s house and decided to recite the text from chapter 9, the Yoga of Mysticism, during the studio recording. <p></p><p>Some listeners, including myself, have thought the music sounded angry, chaotic, expressing pain. But Brazil explained in an interview that the musicians were trying to reach another level of consciousness, a state of exhilaration and joy, striving for a sound that would help people come together. </p><p>A few years later, Brazil collaborated on a piece called “Levels of Consciousness” where he improvised on saxophone while a dancer moved and an actor recited quotes of John Coltrane. Here is our version of Consciousness. </p><p>[Play Consciousness]</p><p>In 1967, Coltrane died and I imagine that Joe must have been devastated. I wonder if Coltrane’s death and Martin Luther King’s death the following year inspired Brazil to think about his own mortality. Coltrane was just a year older than Brazil and King was two years younger. This existential reckoning may have urged him to pass information on to the next generation. Joe began teaching music in Seattle schools – Seattle Community College, Washington Middle School, and Garfield High School. One friend of Joe’s told me, “Joe was a prophet. He wanted people to remember the old guys.”</p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEigqi15nNTnKV0MYOzRqTv_I-sqBmXnjjHUFBORj_j0qtKOYCg29Yiwbd6XRXNKpwkfFCJ_VEF2I2tqJVZys2Zrlnad1ak8lnkHVhsX_lPqNyX4bKyZHQg-gcPtSDQqdlTO52GI4sbNVzM/s800/byronpope.gif" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="800" data-original-width="742" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEigqi15nNTnKV0MYOzRqTv_I-sqBmXnjjHUFBORj_j0qtKOYCg29Yiwbd6XRXNKpwkfFCJ_VEF2I2tqJVZys2Zrlnad1ak8lnkHVhsX_lPqNyX4bKyZHQg-gcPtSDQqdlTO52GI4sbNVzM/s320/byronpope.gif" /></a></div>Joe and another saxophonist, Byron Pope, prepared a curriculum to teach Black Music as part of the University of Washington’s new Black Studies program. Joe used his network of musical friends to bring major artists to lecture and demonstrate for the rapidly growing classes. Joe broke new ground by video taping the artists speaking to the students. Among the many artists in Joe’s class were Earl Hines – the father of modern jazz piano, Dizzy Gillespie – one of the inventors of bebop, and Herbie Hancock – eventually a winner of 14 Grammys for creating popular new jazz styles. Translated to contemporaries in classical music, this is roughly the equivalent of having piano virtuoso Vladimir Horowitz, modern conductor Leonard Bernstein, and contemporary opera composer John Adams address a class of undergraduates.<p></p><p>Enrollment and attendance for Joe’s classes grew dramatically while interest in traditional classes at the School of Music shrank. But Joe’s pro-black stance alienated whites when, at Whitman College, he addressed an African American Cultural Festival with a lecture emphasizing the African ancestry of Beethoven and Haydn. But Joe wasn’t making it up. He had heard Stokley Carmichael say this years earlier at Garfield High School. And there were three books documenting the composers’ dark complexion and African facial features. </p><p>In his lecture, Joe went on to demand equality in teaching black music in schools. Joe said, “Americans are usually proud of their achievements. It is ironic; here is one of the most important cultural subjects, and we are not teaching it in a meaningful way. We teach the European music, but we should be pushing American music just as heavily. If you cancel out the music of the blacks, America would be culturally bankrupt.” </p><p>[Play Beethoven Was Black]</p><p>Joe was on the leading edge of introducing academia to the community and culture of Black America, but the white faculty did not welcome that change and did not grant Joe tenure. Given the rising class enrollment and access to outstanding artists as a unique benefit he brought to the job, Joe attributed the vote of no confidence to racism. An inside investigation did not find legal evidence to support Joe’s claim. </p><p>There was a definite lack of respect for Joe’s casual style and popular subject. Personality, story telling, casual adherence to schedules, mistrust of administration, expression of feelings related to oppression, and public airing of grievances – these did not fit the mold of the UW School of Music.</p><p>Brazil was replaced by Milton Stewart, a black professor from the University of Michigan. He was treated with even less respect than Brazil. When Stewart was denied tenure in 1982, he wrote to the NAACP. “They desperately wanted me because I was a black person with a Ph.D. in music who taught jazz and other Afro-American music courses. One of their ‘reasons’ for terminating Joe Brazil was that he didn’t have academic credentials. I was used as a foil to make what they were doing to Mr. Brazil appear legitimate.”</p><p></p><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgq1uTaJUKSsv6dqn64GnZovOedrrJJaaEH6vmzVBFJ8XpoYKsTpbBNDNjpp3hIDTRloNmYpGQ_1xVsRHMT7wSJcBI7icYE5TwTMaCGhXHlUJ7BwrPpcnFo_5bOrCYAjbRNFpWFKbc-oeE/s2048/King+of+Sweden.jpg" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="2048" data-original-width="1935" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgq1uTaJUKSsv6dqn64GnZovOedrrJJaaEH6vmzVBFJ8XpoYKsTpbBNDNjpp3hIDTRloNmYpGQ_1xVsRHMT7wSJcBI7icYE5TwTMaCGhXHlUJ7BwrPpcnFo_5bOrCYAjbRNFpWFKbc-oeE/s320/King+of+Sweden.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">King Carl Gustof awards Brazil</td></tr></tbody></table>Ironically, as Brazil’s career at UW drew to a close in 1976, rallies and press coverage about him increased. Meanwhile, he founded a non-profit music school called the Black Academy of Music or BAM. He received funding from the Seattle Arts Commission, Seattle Model Cities Program, and the National Endowment of the Arts to teach music at little or no cost to students and lead a community orchestra. Through BAM, Brazil brought music to inmates at Washington prisons. While the UW was ignoring Brazil’s significant role in the community, the King of Sweden, Carl Gustof, presented Brazil with a service award. The king was in America at the time for the bicentennial. He is the same person who bestows the Nobel Prize. <p></p><p>Around this same time that Joe was recognized by royalty, Brazil also appeared on a record by vibraphonist Roy Ayers. I decided to mix these two events into a song called “Royal Heirs.”</p><p>[Play Royal Heirs]</p><p>I found a single page of an autobiography Joe started but never finished. He wrote, “My life has taken a number of directions, but all seemingly with a purpose. Along the way I have come in contact with some remarkable people. Most have had some positive impact on my life. I have also come in contact with many racists and bigots.</p><p>“I feel the information that I share about my life may help to bring about some awareness that will bring us earthlings a step closer together.” </p><p>“Bring about some awareness.” That’s a message from Joe. When I contemplate Awareness and how to bring people closer together, this is how I think it sounds.</p><p>[Play Awareness]</p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgvatLImGCfiO30hFgvmQt3mfinHmVCdJPCFuKOle_NoQZ8gh9LScS7EoxVtHc8UHNjU0yht8Ow8DOvqusING8dIcBJPQRomrjlAC0o180oOFSzQ5boYsGW3Z1k6oCeLyzsSpchgxT2Syo/s2048/Joe+Brazil+2.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="2048" data-original-width="1754" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgvatLImGCfiO30hFgvmQt3mfinHmVCdJPCFuKOle_NoQZ8gh9LScS7EoxVtHc8UHNjU0yht8Ow8DOvqusING8dIcBJPQRomrjlAC0o180oOFSzQ5boYsGW3Z1k6oCeLyzsSpchgxT2Syo/s320/Joe+Brazil+2.jpg" /></a></div>Joe Brazil spent his life making space for the community involved in music to grow. That’s why he became respected by artists, novices and everyone in between. And that’s why I am so curious about his story. I believe that music improvisation is a wonderful embodiment of human freedom. Joe was involved with expanding that freedom. He performed some of the freest sounding music with John Coltrane. He sought recognition of that freedom’s importance and everyone’s right to exercise that freedom. I’m listening to what Joe had to say because I think it is just as relevant today. I cherish the freedom to improvise and I want Americans to recognize how black music traditions enrich our culture. <p></p><p>Joe struggled for his whole life against racial discrimination. He grew up in a time when he was often the first black person where he lived and worked. And in the Pacific Northwest where blacks are marginalized, he repeatedly advocated for education and employment of blacks. If Brazil had lived in Los Angeles or New York City his impact would have been enormous.</p><p>Joe Brazil’s example and advocacy for social justice made a difference in the lives of many people. But, pioneers often encounter obstacles when blazing a new path. I am grateful for the trail Joe made and the struggles he shouldered. Joe was an important figure in the civil rights movement here in Seattle – one of America’s whitest cities.</p><p>James Baldwin said in 1963, “The obligation of anyone who thinks of himself as responsible is to examine society and to try and change it and to fight it—at no matter what the risk. This is the only hope society has. This is the only way societies change.” </p><p>[Play Hope]</p>Steve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-16479680146228902372021-05-31T12:41:00.007-07:002021-06-02T07:53:14.879-07:00Joe Brazil Interviews Hilliard Brazil<p>From Ancestry.com I learn that Joe Brazil was born in Detroit, Michigan on August 25, 1927 to Ida M. Hill and Hilliard Brazil. Ida was 19, twelve years younger than Hilliard and they had married eight months earlier in Laurens County, Georgia – cotton country mid-way between Atlanta and Savanah. Their first son, Zodis, had been born May 6, 1924.</p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhahGAPeZEVhWY6RwNjFI4d_OZRJqrNSHFS_u-bBUd-9K7BiUhYQqYhq6S3sqUZFXzS0pXDSoLB4lfoB2gqi5uFaF7Nmi7uIKNq_jvn4WroXVGM4-PhhnqzkRR2Z0BTQnsvVQmQcJNoE4s/s954/breazeal-henry-willis-1816-estate-ad.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="600" data-original-width="954" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhahGAPeZEVhWY6RwNjFI4d_OZRJqrNSHFS_u-bBUd-9K7BiUhYQqYhq6S3sqUZFXzS0pXDSoLB4lfoB2gqi5uFaF7Nmi7uIKNq_jvn4WroXVGM4-PhhnqzkRR2Z0BTQnsvVQmQcJNoE4s/s320/breazeal-henry-willis-1816-estate-ad.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>The land surrounding Laurens County had been inhabited by the Creek Indians for thousands of years. The Oconee River wanders southeast toward the Atlantic Ocean, through flat fertile soil and abundant loblolly pine forests. The early American settlers were descended from English, Scottish, and Irish. By 1850, after the pine had been cleared, cotton plantations dominated this upper coastal plain. Forty-five percent of the population were slaves. Most slaves in Laurens County were from Angola, a Portuguese colony involved in the slave trade with Brazil. Joe's great grandparents had been slaves.<p></p><p>Many slaves took the surnames of their owners. According to census records and deeds, a plantation owner in Laurens County, Georgia during the Civil War was named Willis Breazeal, son of Henry Willis Breazeal who established a plantation in the late 1700s. Perhaps Joe's family name came from this plantation.</p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgt3VBKVOb82-oa7tUomMsTxNxtY42Ygt7Rpyn8If6xRRzhjrXapOrsmz6oT4yKrXWGddxfar2Lw_yqV0rxS1ye82Ig9XhQva8I8I4I4UDlEBByI_DiF4fktnnKD_QuNtnksDBdx1Tk58E/s1712/mds_ad10.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1712" data-original-width="1200" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgt3VBKVOb82-oa7tUomMsTxNxtY42Ygt7Rpyn8If6xRRzhjrXapOrsmz6oT4yKrXWGddxfar2Lw_yqV0rxS1ye82Ig9XhQva8I8I4I4UDlEBByI_DiF4fktnnKD_QuNtnksDBdx1Tk58E/s320/mds_ad10.jpg" /></a></div>In 1911, Laurens County produced 31 million pounds of cotton, some of it no doubt picked by Joe's ancestors. But the economy collapsed when a boll weevil infestation began decimating harvests in 1919, fueling a mass migration of black farmers to jobs in northern cities. The story of Joe's parents is part of this major shift in American demographics, economics, and culture.<p></p><p>Railroads to the nearby county seat of Dublin had provided explosive growth in Laurens County, and would eventually be the conduit for black exodus. The Vidalia Route on the Macon, Dublin, and Savannah Railroad was built in 1891, four years before Hilliard was born, with a stop in Montrose, pronounced “Mont Rose” by residents, a tiny town so puny and poor that even today it lacks a public sewer system. While Hilliard was growing up and working in the cotton fields with his father, Charlie, he would have heard whistles from the two steam trains that ran the 54-mile route north in the morning and south in the evening. One day in 1927, the Brazil family would get a one-way ticket on the north bound run.</p><p>April 7, 1978</p><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEijrGzQRLDFrAsajMdBOXbzt4NsLOs72q-fBTXLAwzgEZ7hQF9HfO1dqMkpksVs_oXffs_pW5QWpAIiERSiaIjwEC7the6jnwFse3whkukJeXDBOL3EJO2xeFjb7d5jhsBnY2bg7iLZv8g/s2048/Hilliard+Brazil.jpg" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="2048" data-original-width="1536" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEijrGzQRLDFrAsajMdBOXbzt4NsLOs72q-fBTXLAwzgEZ7hQF9HfO1dqMkpksVs_oXffs_pW5QWpAIiERSiaIjwEC7the6jnwFse3whkukJeXDBOL3EJO2xeFjb7d5jhsBnY2bg7iLZv8g/s320/Hilliard+Brazil.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Hilliard Brazil</td></tr></tbody></table>[tape counter 36:47]<p></p><p>Joe Brazil: Hit it. And so it's recording now.</p><p>Hilliard Brazil: Uh huh</p><p>JB: You see that little needle jumping right here.</p><p>HB: Yeah, yeah.</p><p>JB: It's recording right now. </p><p>HB: Ok.</p><p>JB: I can look at this number and say its at...</p><p>HB: It takes smart people to operate them. And the guy that made it...</p><p>JB: Oh, my goodness.</p><p>HB: Oh, boy. Now he was something else.</p><p>JB: Yeah, right. He was really thinking. And they keep improving them you know.</p><p>HB: Yeah.</p><p>JB: Each year their doing something to them.</p><p>JB: I don't really have, I haven't thought of nothing to ask directly. You know it's just a basic want to try and trace our family tree. We've talked about it sometimes. I know you remember a lot of things and perhaps on both sides of the family, the Brazil side, and the Hill side, especially from Georgia. So maybe we can just start with where you were born at specifically and maybe dates and that kind of thing.</p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiC-SotMsf7BpySA1T1_Ij7zZwLjiC-31rHyjog4WgGvzhKgrchOchjl9GjqQxLg6R2fLHjCqiuU14sB1W-8dAWNfDYoY94HW1XMqtxgbHzctskjV25VJVCHlhOmLHA7D_ZpbSdcyQ7yYU/s250/250px-Laurens_County_Georgia_Incorporated_and_Unincorporated_areas_Montrose_Highlighted.svg.png" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="203" data-original-width="250" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiC-SotMsf7BpySA1T1_Ij7zZwLjiC-31rHyjog4WgGvzhKgrchOchjl9GjqQxLg6R2fLHjCqiuU14sB1W-8dAWNfDYoY94HW1XMqtxgbHzctskjV25VJVCHlhOmLHA7D_ZpbSdcyQ7yYU/s0/250px-Laurens_County_Georgia_Incorporated_and_Unincorporated_areas_Montrose_Highlighted.svg.png" /></a></div>HB: I was born in Georgia, in <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montrose,_Georgia" target="_blank">Montrose</a>. A town there. I was actually born two miles out from the school. There was a railroad station there. A train stop, post office, and what have you. We called it a town. But I was born two miles out in the country from that. I guess they still call a little place marker, but there ain't nothing left there. The old houses, old store that was there. There wasn't but, I believe, four. And none of them is operating. And some of them part. Not all of them whole. Part of the whole is down. Fallen down. Pushed down or something. <p></p><p>JB: What was that date? Date of birth?</p><p>HB: I don't know when that took place.</p><p>JB: No. Your birth date.</p><p>HB: My birth date? Oh, my birth date is back in the 1800s. I was born 1895. I was born five years before 1900 came in.</p><p>JB: Yeah. Do you remember the exact date? What was the day and the month?</p><p>HB: September 6th.</p><p>JB: Oh, September 6th?</p><p>HB: Yes. I was born 1895, September 6th.</p><p>JB: So you're under the sign of Virgo, then.</p><p>HB: Huh?</p><p>JB: I'm a Virgo, too. Well you see that's during the year, they chop the year into twelve different parts and from August the 23rd to September the 23rd, something like that is Virgo.</p><p>HB: What you call that Vego?</p><p>JB: Virgo - V-i-r-g-o. Everybody's got some sort of sign. It's an astrology sign. I didn't realize you were the same sign I am. We are the same sign. My brother is Taurus.</p><p>HB: Is what?</p><p>JB: Taurus. He was born in May.</p><p>HB: Who?</p><p>JB: Brother.</p><p>HB: Brother.</p><p>JB: Right.</p><p>HB: And his is?</p><p>JB: It's called Taurus. It's May the 6th. So everybody's got...that's just something that people look at...</p><p>HB: Well it's nice for them to find out all that. But I seen a card, you know they've got an attractive way of writing it on the windows or what have you. I couldn't even pronounce a lot of it but I seen those kind of signs. That's what you're talking about.</p><p>JB: So you're September the 6th in 1895 out of Montrose, Georgia. </p><p>HB: What's that?</p><p>JB: You said September the 6, 1895 right outside of Montrose, Georgia. Right near Montrose, Georgia. Within two miles you say.</p><p>HB: Mont...</p><p>JB: Montrose. Didn't you say Montrose?</p><p>HB: I don't know what that means. I can't understand anyway.</p><p>JB: Oh! Didn't you say right in Georgia where you was born.</p><p>HB: Yeah. Georgia.</p><p>JB: But you said it was Montrose, Georgia.</p><p>HB: Mont-rose. Yeah, Mont-rose.</p><p>JB: Oh, Mont-rose</p><p>HB: M-o-n-t-r-o-s-e</p><p>JB: I was saying Montrose.</p><p>HB: Mont-rose.</p><p>JB: Mont-rose.</p><p>HB: Mont-rose, Georgia. That was our post office. We lived out on, kind of slipped up on Route 2. I believe it was 24. I believe our box was 24. I believe. But it was Route 2, box 24, I believe. Mail carrier brought our mail out on Monday.</p><p>JB: Now what was your parents' names?</p><p>HB: My father's name was Charlie Brazil.</p><p>JB: That's my grandfather.</p><p>HB: Yeah. That's right. I got a picture... And my mother was named Mary Lou Brazil. Now I don't guess I got a picture of my mother. But I don't know of her picture being made at all itself. Once my sisters, she...My mother passed already and Queen had decided to make a picture of her passing. Well, I don't know if I have that. But my father, he was kind of, I don't know if you call it keen or what, but he was kind of deep into things. You know I made pictures when I was...</p><p>JB: You were into photography yourself.</p><p></p><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiF7O-yO8N21ClV27X1QaO9-zsmk3jfm5tGpS2YtqcOVJ1iUfz9QbN1uDXQSmE_QUr_u5ZfMttiIykgr2lw7i4HT8USpdbBSui-jcmoJFDcIzXo5uRDR7xA3IPbgBT75ZZOTfasyax0UVQ/s600/mandel1.jpg" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="347" data-original-width="600" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiF7O-yO8N21ClV27X1QaO9-zsmk3jfm5tGpS2YtqcOVJ1iUfz9QbN1uDXQSmE_QUr_u5ZfMttiIykgr2lw7i4HT8USpdbBSui-jcmoJFDcIzXo5uRDR7xA3IPbgBT75ZZOTfasyax0UVQ/s320/mandel1.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Chicago Ferrotype ad 1915</td></tr></tbody></table>HB: I made pictures when I was in teenage and coming up I guess around 18, well I understood and made them even after that. In fact did have that kind of experience. When I was dead into it, a country boy, I was, I made some money at it. And that all come in I'd say between the age of, to cover it good I'd say 14, no, maybe less than that. But I'll say 14 to 18 years. About 4 or 5 years. Maybe 14 to 20 years maybe. But I was making some here and there. When I was on the farm, I bought a bicycle. Paid twelve dollars for it. It was shot. But I was keen on repairing things so I could keep the old bike running. And I build a little shelf on back big enough for my camera. A little more, a little extra space and I bolted down, punched a hole through two oyster cans. You know, the oysters you buy in a can something like pork and beans. Well that can would, with the top cut out, I made my own developer. I would seal it up in a beer bottle. You know with a beer bottle, you pull the cap off and you can snap it on and all that. Well, I had bantu caps [bantu is millet beer from West Africa and the majority of slaves in Laurens County were from Angola, a Portuguese colony involved in the slave trade with Brazil], I don't know why, I guess we had a beer or something like that. So we had drank the cap and keep, even with the second hand, it would seal it up good. It wasn't necessary to seal it so tight anyway. But ah, that beer bottle would fit snug in that can. So I made a whole in the center of the can, put a bolt in it, bolted it right down on each back corner of that shelf on that bicycle. And the camera, it was a little long, not quite as wide as that machine there and I just put it on its side. And I'd set it on that and I would fasten it, you know, substantially. And I made myself a background that would fold up. Now you know if I had some place to make pictures, no background or walls or something for people to stand in front of, nothing. That was something I made at home. But I bought the canvas and made it to fit.<p></p><p>JB: Yeah. That's way ahead of the time because they're doing almost the exact same thing today. In places like some big department store, they go and take your picture there, put a little background there. If you want a tree scene or you want a sunset or whatever. You just got a little picture there. And you were doing that.</p><p>HB: Yeah, that's right. I made that and I'd frame it. I'd fold it up and roll it up and put it across the handlebars in front. And I had all my stuff. Packing up the bike I could go seventeen miles up or down to the railroad, I go out in the country anywhere.</p><p>JB: So a lot of people wanted that service. I guess a lot of people wanted pictures taken.</p><p>HB: Oh, yeah. I made... you know the country's not heavily populated out of the city. There's a house here and there and then you get a bunch of people together you got to get people from all over. And I'd go up seventeen miles to Jeffersonville. I'd make thirty-five dollars. I remember going on up there ah, I think it was the fourth Sunday in September. I never, I don't remember going up there and making less than thirty-five dollars.</p><p>JB: Son of a gun. That was good.</p><p>HB: Thirty-five dollars was a lot of money in the country because people at that time was working for fifty cents a day. I'd go on my bike and make thirty-five dollars rain or shine. You know if it rained, it would have to, well it didn't happen, but it would have to rain continuously all day and keep people close to the machine. Because if it rained in the morning, they would cut out and the show go on in the afternoon but I'd make that thirty-five dollars like that. I'd only have two hours anyway. Wait for it after that. Because...</p><p>JB: How much did you charge for each picture?</p><p>HB: Well, I'd start of at a dime or whatever, a quarter.</p><p>JB: And you made that much money off of that. You made a whole lot of picture then, huh? To make that thirty-five dollars you'd have to make about fifty or a hundred.</p><p>HB: Oh yeah. I made, I don't know how many I made. But ah, it was, we use to do, because, sometimes whether it was the morning or afternoon, and the reason I said I did it in half days, I guess it wouldn't be over an hour, hour and a half at the most because I was located between the church and the railroad station. And everybody would come on the train. But if he was at the buggy they would find out were I was and cut out to get a picture made. But ah, people were going when they leave the train or depot, or any direction, going to the church, they weren't too much concerned about.</p><p>JB: Oh, I see.</p><p>HB: But when they leave, going away, then that's the time everyone wanted the picture made. Well, you see, it wasn't too long before all the people going to church would be passed anyhow. But that's the time actually it took, maybe a little more, for me to make that money. But the machine I had, it was a one minute machine so I had two sections in the cup in the back where I developed the pictures. And it took them a minute to develop. I'd drop them in there, maybe, if I had nothing in there I'd maybe make, depending on the crowd, maybe four, five, maybe half a dozen. And then I'd turn that thing around and start putting in the other section. You know it revolved around. Like after one section, you revolve it around and put in the other section where you drop it in there. Well the minute it required for those to develop, it was back there developing, you know, so then I'd make pictures for least a minute or maybe a minute and a half.</p><p>JB: And then you would just take them out.</p><p>HB: Oh I took them. By then I would have the bottle filled anyway. But THESE would be developed. By the time I deliver all of them, the ones over there would be developing. I'd turn around and take them out and deliver them and then I got to get one again, and put in maybe a few here, turn around and set it up like that.</p><p>JB: Production line going.<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjGK9jMUcCAnZH5V9Njz4fR28BX4nHSqtGt8ZVxjj5f7_CdTlv1Ww8T7fl6_qZxqYrh9U2hyphenhyphenVt4Y42XIdVXQ1quSRZNXXKjDZBfecyw8K9SKlpMZRl7_DDUVHcxqCsoK54mC5RQhwYKTbw/s646/Chicago+Ferrotype+Ad.jpg" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em; text-align: center;"><img border="0" data-original-height="646" data-original-width="457" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjGK9jMUcCAnZH5V9Njz4fR28BX4nHSqtGt8ZVxjj5f7_CdTlv1Ww8T7fl6_qZxqYrh9U2hyphenhyphenVt4Y42XIdVXQ1quSRZNXXKjDZBfecyw8K9SKlpMZRl7_DDUVHcxqCsoK54mC5RQhwYKTbw/s320/Chicago+Ferrotype+Ad.jpg" /></a></p><p>HB: Yeah. Well I was the only one on production. You know, I worked it out. So anyway, ah, on the third, I believe it was the third or fourth Sunday, whatever it was, I made thirty-five dollars. And I had a pretty good experience on that because ah, I ah, would write to, if on the back of the magazine at that time under, through all, under every page, because I had time on my hands anyway. So if there was something of interest I would check on that and it would turn out to be this picture machine with the most interesting thing I ever saw in a magazine.</p><p>JB: Oh, I see. So you ordered it.</p><p>HB: Yeah, well, what made it interesting, I wanted to make some money. And I saw, must have been Jim Turling or somebody, a picture man come from a little town, maybe, might have been, if it was Jim Turling, he come from Dublin, and he was standing behind the tripod, three-legged you know, and making them dimes. That's what it took to make them dimes. That's what I liked. Well, I was too bashful to ask the man, could any of them make them from him how to get that machine. I didn't know how to get it. I just saw this man doing it. That's all. That's as far as I got. So ah, looking through the magazine I saw a picture of a guy standing behind looked something just like, I said, "This is it." And I, I don't know, I must have saw it for a while before I was able to do anything about it because my money was hard to come by. And ah, but I kept wanting until that one day there was one advertised for six dollars. It was the small one, it was, oh a little square box, you know, a little box but it was small. But it was for six dollars. And ah, they said you could pay it on an installment plan. So that was right down my alley. So I wrote for one. And waited for a week. It took you a week to get a reply. I wrote for one and waited for a week and it didn't show. So I wrote for another. I waited another week and it didn't show. So I put in an order for another one. Three of them. By that time, things started coming.</p><p>JB: Oh, all of them started coming.</p><p>HB: The third of them didn't come but the second one did. But I took this album from the first one and I would read, well I had read and found out what I had found out, but the important stuff I didn't. Such as the instruction how to operate it. I read up and found out it had six, the possibility of making six pictures come with the set. And if you understand you can make the six. But it was my first affair so I had to count to see if the guy was cheating me. So I counted the cards. And that meant I took them out of there in the light. And that's silly. They wouldn't make a picture. You couldn't expose them to light because...</p><p>JB: Right, right.</p><p>HB: So ah, then I realized, "Oh, that's why I ruined them."</p><p>JB: Yeah, I want to...</p><p></p><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg7KAGwpjTTHVPRJa_pbmC94r7fbQcaCQBXQ2hBUths4wUVLtohdKhj5BvKklLJ0oBDoo8rzmZHXX9cYY5baDZxNzmpSRbsqJ8yhgXvGo4Gq9CdsvMExMfnaN2ANiog59Vp1uLiSexO83I/s803/Millville+Church.png" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="704" data-original-width="803" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg7KAGwpjTTHVPRJa_pbmC94r7fbQcaCQBXQ2hBUths4wUVLtohdKhj5BvKklLJ0oBDoo8rzmZHXX9cYY5baDZxNzmpSRbsqJ8yhgXvGo4Gq9CdsvMExMfnaN2ANiog59Vp1uLiSexO83I/s320/Millville+Church.png" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Montrose lower left, Millville upper right</td></tr></tbody></table>HB: So when the next one came, I took it out and I made them six without any trouble. And I took that, I don't know what happened to the one, that first one, or whatever one that was, but I had two on my hand at that time. So I took and ah, went over to Millville [1681 Millville Church Rd, Dublin, GA 31021], that's a church, and I was making pictures here and there with that little machine. And on the other side of the church ground there was Jim Turley. He had one of them big deals over there making pictures. So, I don't know about the big deal. All I know is what I got, this little stuff. But I wanted one of them big ones like what he got. So I sneaked over there and, you know, he was alright. He wasn't paying attention. But I thought I was sneaking. I thought I was stealing something. <p></p><p>JB: Ha, ha, he was enjoying himself.</p><p>HB: So I went over there an looked all over his machine to see what was the trademark. Who made it.</p><p>JB: Yeah.</p><p>HB: And it had the same name as what mine had, Chicago Ferrotype Company. </p><p>JB: He had a bigger one that yours.</p><p>HB: So I came home. I was paying or whatever it was. It wasn't but a little while past, anyhow. I think it was a dollar a week or a dollar a month or something. I would send it to them. But this one, it was much more, it cost, it looked like a monster to me. It cost forty five dollars I believe.</p><p>JB: Hmm.</p><p>HB: I believe that big one cost forty five dollars. Or near fifty dollars.</p><p>JB: That was a lot of money at that period.</p><p>HB: Oh boy. That was a lot of money for me. I didn't have no part of that. So I, um, saw it was from Chicago Ferrotype. So I goes home and write a, you know, a business letter to the Chicago Ferrotype Company for one of them, you know. Well they sent me their magazine, sent me a whole lot of stuff. They sent me all of their advertising papers, you know, showing all the different kinds. Yeah, I don't know what that thing cost. It may... yeah it must have been about forty five dollars. Anyway, this was one, or like it was about the most expensive one they had on it. And I wrote them a letter and told them that, ah, I could pay them, I think it was fifteen dollars down. And so much per month or something. And they fell for it. But the important part about it, I never did pay over fifteen dollars for it. That's all it cost me for the whole time. That's all that big machine cost me.</p><p>JB: Oh. So they never did collect the rest of it.</p><p>HB: Never did. Now here's how that come about. I simply didn't have to send anything. You're supposed to pay fifteen dollars at the post office when it arrives. So it arrived and they had one. And they filled the little deal within that. And zero's condemning them on that whatever that typewriter or adding machine or whatever it was, condemning them. And Clem Williams was the postmaster, he was running that store, cause they had, the post office was on the grocery store, they sold stuff and had a post office in their store. And Clem Williams operated Mr. Williams store, his daddy's store. So Clem thought it was, right here, a dollar and a half. He didn't see. He thought it was...</p><p>JB: Oh, oh, oh.</p><p>HB: He didn't understand. He thought it was a dollar and a half.</p><p>JB: Oh, I see.</p><p>HB: So that's what it cost me. A dollar and a half. I didn't even pay the fifteen dollars.</p><p>JB: Ha, ha, ha.</p><p>HB: I paid a dollar and a half and got that big machine now, well. I knew I was poor. I had money. I had fifteen dollars but I didn't wake them up because...</p><p>JB: Right.</p><p>HB: I wasn't supposed to know anything.</p><p>JB: Right.</p><p></p><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjdg2UOKmFtVNVDzo7LVw47DOxwJEAueHRHQXtKwUO9gTbicIDrLs6rMwCMAsYfqZmb2pyIO7wt95dhsJB8fwT1G2hActM74_59duMfMqeYMeFwpxZGi7iNBRHxwj3gQHNdJ_2bAqxBGVU/s800/collodion-chemistry-set-ii-standard.jpg" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="800" data-original-width="700" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjdg2UOKmFtVNVDzo7LVw47DOxwJEAueHRHQXtKwUO9gTbicIDrLs6rMwCMAsYfqZmb2pyIO7wt95dhsJB8fwT1G2hActM74_59duMfMqeYMeFwpxZGi7iNBRHxwj3gQHNdJ_2bAqxBGVU/s320/collodion-chemistry-set-ii-standard.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Modern ferrotype developer</td></tr></tbody></table>HB: So uh, I took that thing home. I said, now here's the part that's bad off as if I called that guy's attention to it because, I want to make the developer. Make my own developer. They would send it already made, but you could buy hydrochinon and different kind of ingredients and mix it up. And it was really better because for instance it was some of that ingredient, if you add a little more it would make it more brilliant.<p></p><p>JB: Ah.</p><p>HB: It would refine the picture. Well I learned all that secret too.</p><p>JB: Oh, yeah.</p><p>HB: So I bought this in pieces and made my own developer. Well, and on top of that, and naturally, I would need more cards or more picture materials.</p><p>JB: Right, right.</p><p>HB: Well I had to contact the company again and I figured they would find that out that they didn't get but a dollar and a half for the whole grip and boy it was, I had a bunch to lose. Cardboard boxes, this and that, and different boxes you know. And plus with that tripod, the machine and the other supplies and stuff that went with it. So uh, I said, "They going to, got to find out." But I sent back and I bought developer from them, that mix you know that gets greener, made that developer and bought more products from them and they never knew. So I got that machine for a dollar and a half because the figures were faded more and more...</p><p>JB: Faded right there.</p><p>HB: I guess they needed a new tape on the typewriter or something. But that's the one...</p><p>JB: You really wanted and you got it for the price. That was really a break.</p><p>HB: Yeah, so, I kept, I don't know what happened to it because I got out of it. I go up to Atlanta and went to work there. That's where I wish that machine, I don't know what happened. Somebody must have stole it. Well since as much as I wasn't using it, it was there in the house or about the house somewhere.</p><p>JB: I see.</p><p>HB: And I didn't check on it every day.</p><p>JB: Yeah, right.</p><p>HB: Well I don't know when, or anything about its disappearance. It's just gone.</p><p>JB: You came home late, it went on late. Anyway. Getting back to the family, you had what, four or five sisters and brothers. </p><p>HB: Well uh, how many are all dead and alive, I have twelve.</p><p>JB: Twelve sisters and brothers.</p><p>HB: Yeah.</p><p>JB: Do you recall...</p><p>HB: I don't know their names, maybe one of the brothers named Little B. Senior, but they all died young.</p><p>JB: Oh I see.</p><p>HB: They all died.</p><p>JB: As many of the names you can think of and maybe just when they were born. </p><p>HB: Who is that?</p><p>JB: All the sisters and brothers. As many of the names you can think of.</p><p>HB: Yeah, well, if I can really, well I would say would be my... before.</p><p>JB: Yeah, right.</p><p>HB: Because I remember them.</p><p>JB: Right, yeah.</p><p>HB: One was named Queen. Queen Victoria Brazil at that time when she was born. And I was next to her a year.</p><p>JB: Oh she was older.</p><p>HB: Yeah. She was the oldest.</p><p>JB: Do you remember what her birthday was? You don't when her birthday was, huh? </p><p>HB: Huh?</p><p>JB: Recall when her birthday was? Aunt Queen's birthday. Do you know when Aunt Queen's birthday was?</p><p>HB: Yeah. April 8th. </p><p>JB: April 8th. That's tomorrow.</p><p>HB: Yeah. April 8th.</p><p>JB: Or today. No, tomorrow. Tomorrow's April 8th.</p><p>HB: Yeah. Today is the...</p><p>JB: 7th</p><p>HB: 7th. No. The 7th.</p><p>JB: Yeah. Today's the 7th.</p><p>HB: Yeah. Today's the 7th. Tomorrow's the 8th.</p><p>JB: Probably remember the date, 18...</p><p>HB: 1890... I think Queen's birthday was 1893.</p><p>JB: So she was about 2 or 3 years older. She wasn't too much older. I'd say it's about a couple of years.</p><p>HB: She was about 2 years older than I was.</p><p>JB: Oh, I see.</p><p>HB: I'm not sure about that but I ain't never remember anything like what in 1894. But it was, I think, 1893.</p><p>JB: Now Mose was after you.</p><p>HB: Mose. Yeah. I'm nine years and twenty days older than him so you can figure whatever date that was. In fact he was born... I don't know exactly. But nine years and twenty days younger than I.</p><p>JB: Oh, nine years and twenty days, huh?</p><p>HB: Yeah. Nine years and twenty days younger than I am.</p><p>JB: Let's see. So your birthday is the 6th. So he was born in August then.</p><p>HB: Well he was born... Wait a minute.</p><p>JB: Yeah, see it was twenty days.</p><p>HB: Yeah our birthdays were about the same.</p><p>JB: Yeah, so twenty days earlier, that would have to be back in August. Because your September 6th. You take six days off of that. Takes you back to August. And then you take seventeen days after that. Let's see. The thirty first and seventeen is four. That seems like August fourteenth to me.</p><p>HB: I don't know about that.</p><p>JB: You said nine years and twenty days.</p><p>HB: Nine years.</p><p>JB: So if you take the nine years off and you say, well you add nine years to it, so adding nine years really makes it younger. You know. So that makes him two, 1902.</p><p>HB: I think he was born in 1904.</p><p>JB: 1904.</p><p>HB: I was born in 1895. He was born 1904. Nine years. From 1895 to 18... From 1895 to 1904.</p><p>JB: You're right. You're right. 1904. You're right. 1904. You're exactly right. Ok so yeah, he's 1904 and August the 14th.</p><p>HB: No. </p><p>JB: That's twenty...</p><p>HB: Seems like his birthday is in September.</p><p>JB: Hmm. Maybe it's twenty days the other way then. Maybe it's the 26th.</p><p>HB: I don't know why I had twenty days.</p><p>JB: Younger.</p><p>HB: Ok. He nine years. I guess what it is... I maybe...</p><p>JB: See he was, he would have to be September the 26th. Which would be twenty days that way.</p><p>HB: That's right.</p><p>JB: Or it would have to be August 14th, twenty days the other way.</p><p>HB: Uh. Yeah. I think it's something like my birthday but, you know, twenty days...</p><p>JB: So it's probably, yeah, probably September 26th.</p><p>HB: Yeah. I'm getting to where I can't remember.</p><p>JB: Yeah. That's a memory now.</p><p>HB: I'm filled up with don't know how many different things. </p><p>JB: Yeah. Right. Your main mind is busy trying to get that trip and everything going too. The other sister's Baby Girl, right.</p><p>HB: That's right.</p><p>JB: But what was her name?</p><p>HB: I don't know, I don't know anything about Baby's birthday.</p><p>JB: But you know her actual name is not Baby though is it.</p><p>HB: No. Her name is Mary Lou.</p><p>JB: Yeah, Mary Lou. Right.</p><p>HB: Same as her mother.</p><p>JB: Oh. Same as her mother's name.</p><p>HB: Yeah. My mother's name. In fact, between me and baby girl we lost a lot of my sisters and brothers. They died at a fairly young age. They was born but that's all.</p><p>JB: Maybe we ought to find out....</p><p>HB: They wasn't old enough for them to name them, give them a name.</p><p>JB: Right.</p><p>HB: Because they, you know, they tried different things and my father and mother was ah, devout, they was really religious. So they thought of everything. So they said maybe we're naming them too late. So they didn't name, they quit naming them.</p><p>JB: Because they thought that might have caused it.</p><p>HB: Yeah. And Baby Girl was born. So they didn't give her a name. And she lived until she got old enough to give her own self a name.</p><p>JB: Oh. She named herself?</p><p>HB: She named herself.</p><p>JB: That's interesting.</p><p>HB: Because, you know, and so she called her her mother's name so she named herself right after her mother. That's how that come about.</p><p>JB: Interesting, yeah. So she should be quite a bit younger than, ah so, if she's born after Mose was in 1904, so...</p><p>HB: Well, baby was older than Mose.</p><p>JB: Oh, she's older than Mose.</p><p>HB: Yeah. Baby Girl...</p><p>JB: Oh. I thought she was younger.</p><p>HB: She's younger than I am but she's older than my brother.</p><p>JB: Oh, I see. There were a lot of, lot of bothers in between there.</p><p>HB: More. There was Queen, myself, Baby Girl, and Mose.</p><p>JB: Oh. So Mose is youngest.</p><p>HB: That's right.</p><p>JB: Oh. I see. So Baby Girl would have to be somewhere in between there then.</p><p>HB: That's right.</p><p>JB: So she's probably around either 1900 or 1899. Something like that.</p><p>HB: I don't really know.</p><p>JB: Right around there, sure.</p><p>HB: And I talked to her here not too long ago but I wasn't thinking in terms of this at all. So I... in fact I never did. If I did, I forgot.</p><p>JB: And she lived, she's still living in Atlanta.</p><p>HB: She's still in Atlanta.</p><p>JB: I think I've got her... I'm sure I've got her main address.</p><p>HB: 236.</p><p>JB: Oh that's her address? 236.</p><p>HB: Mary Cantrell.</p><p>JB: That's her married name now.</p><p>HB: Yeah. That's her married name. She was named Mary Lou Brazil to start with. Yeah. 236 Holly Road.</p><p>JB: Yeah, right. I've been there. And that's in Atlanta. What was her phone number?</p><p>HB: Yeah, you know your going to go there a long answer for you that's 1-404...</p><p>JB: Oh. That's zip code 404. Oh, I mean area code.</p><p>HB: Well the area code would be 404.</p><p>JB: Yeah, right.</p><p>HB: And that, you know, you got to... You know what... And it's xxx-xxxx.</p><p></p><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhugO9t_Pv5mpkV6k2YVthUSzL26G2b5YbtlMY5eQ9PFjIlSyvB-4JX2NnTRKX3ryIT-BbXQ_efebGha_zKgsFmHwUxBtC04qHVJHkRMij7sKlxVGPcyQd5bR7wBusaGoAl5kamhsceSC4/s2048/Ida+Hill+Brazil.jpg" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="2048" data-original-width="1536" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhugO9t_Pv5mpkV6k2YVthUSzL26G2b5YbtlMY5eQ9PFjIlSyvB-4JX2NnTRKX3ryIT-BbXQ_efebGha_zKgsFmHwUxBtC04qHVJHkRMij7sKlxVGPcyQd5bR7wBusaGoAl5kamhsceSC4/s320/Ida+Hill+Brazil.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Ida [Hill] Brazil</td></tr></tbody></table>JB: Ok, well. Now back to kind of, Atlanta, Georgia, do you recall when you first met momma, Ida? Do you remember when you all first...<p></p><p>HB: Let's see. We was in Atlanta. Well I've been knowing her all her life.</p><p>JB: Right.</p><p>HB: She lived in Montrose, too. Out there in the county.</p><p>JB: Oh, I see. That was in Montrose too.</p><p>HB: Yeah. I've been knowing her...</p><p>JB: Well they came... She was born in Twiggs County, where ever that is.</p><p>HB: What?</p><p>JB: Was she born, in like, Twiggs County or something. I don't know what that is. Twiggs.</p><p>HB: Now I don't know if, I know, I don't know. But Mr. Hill moved... I can't [unintelligible] too good for her... He was an older... He was an older, and, and, that's how the judge and my father was.</p><p>JB: Oh, I see.</p><p>HB: And he might got caught from Twiggs County. But that's a little too deep for me.</p><p>JB: Yeah. Right. There's a couple of things I want, like momma's birthday and aunt Bertha's birthday. You know, on their records it shows Twiggs County.</p><p>HB: Yeah. Well. That must be it. They probably did live in there but they moved down down nearer to Montrose and our part.</p><p>JB: Oh, I see.</p><p>HB: Yeah. But, ah, that's too deep for me.</p><p>JB: Right.</p><p>HB: People was moving around, caught out there, caught at... So many people moved away from where we were and some moved in where every we were. You know, that kind of thing.</p><p>JB: Hmm. And did you guys, did you get married in Atlanta.</p><p>HB: To Ida?</p><p>JB: Yeah. Right.</p><p>HB: We were married here.</p><p>JB: Oh. You were married here. You're married in Detroit.</p><p>HB: Yeah.</p><p>JB: You just came up together.</p><p>HB: Yeah. Well, ah, after I was in Atlanta, after I was up there for a while, in Atlanta, then Ida came up. I don't know if Bertha came up, or Ida came up. </p><p>Woman's voice: Ida.</p><p>HB: Yeah. She came up there and was living up there, that's all.</p><p>JB: Um-hum.</p><p>HB: And that's when your brother was born in Atlanta.</p><p>JB: Yeah. Brother was born in Atlanta, right.</p><p>HB: And ah, then we came here. But you see, I married her after we got here.</p><p>JB: Oh. I see.</p><p>HB: And then you were born.</p><p>JB: Right. I was born here.</p><p>HB: You were born here in Detroit.</p><p>JB: Right. 1927. I guess brother was born 1924.</p><p>HB: 27.</p><p>JB: 1927.</p><p>HB: That's right.</p><p>JB: August 25th. I guess brother was born in 1924.</p><p>HB: Yeah. That was just before I left Atlanta.</p><p>JB: 1924. May the 6th is his birthday. And so, so you guys came up but, but it wasn't, wasn't together. Just the children, just the two of us. Didn't one child die?</p><p>HB: No. It was just the two, that's all.</p><p>JB: Ok. Do you remember what year, so what year did you come here to Detroit, in what, about 1925, 26, something like that?</p><p>HB: 25. </p><p>JB: When you came to Detroit?</p><p>HB: Yeah.</p><p>JB: About 1925.</p><p>HB: 1925.</p><p>JB: And then what? You came to work for Ford, or you just came to change towns, or...</p><p>HB: What's that?</p><p>JB: You came primarily to work or just to change towns?</p><p>HB: Yeah. I come here to work at Ford.</p><p>JB: Yeah. That's right.</p><p>HB: Finally I got on there, but not, not right off, not right off the rail. But I finally got to start working there.</p><p>JB: Right.</p><p>HB: But that's when I came here for.</p><p>JB: Yeah. That's... Now... if I try, I try to trace like from the Brazil side and... You don't remember what your mother's maiden name was.</p><p>HB: Hardy.</p><p>JB: Hardy.</p><p>HB: Her name was Mary Lou Hardy before she got married to my father.</p><p>JB: Oh. So therefore, her family tree would be the Hardys.</p><p>HB: That's right.</p><p>JB: Did you ever know any of the Hardys?</p><p>HB: I don't know of any other Hardy down there. That's getting back...</p><p>JB: Going way back.</p><p>HB: Getting back to where I can't remember too well.</p><p>JB: Yeah, right.</p><p>HB: So. But they was Hardys but I don't remember any more Hardys being down there. And there aren't any more. I remember my mother talking. Because my mother was born after the so called freedom.</p><p>JB: Oh.</p><p>HB: But her father, my grandfather, Charlie Hardy, he got a little taste, a little benefit...</p><p>JB: A slave.</p><p>HB: Because I think he was born just before the freedom.</p><p>JB: Ah.</p><p>HB: Whenever that is, you know, when you have slaves and freed all of them.</p><p>JB: So his name was Charlie, just like your father.</p><p>HB: His name was Charlie Hardy. And my mother's name, my mother's name Mary Lou, no my grandmother, that's Charlie Hardy's wife was named Jane Hardy.</p><p>JB: Oh. Ok.</p><p>HB: Yeah.</p><p>JB: Charlie. You remember quite a bit going back.</p><p>HB: I don't know how they come by that name Hardy. Because, from the best I can remember they, from the conflicts they had back then, they was McGriff. I don't know if my grandfather, I don't, I... If he was Charlie McGriff how did he come by Charlie Hardy? Maybe somebody named him Hardy bought him.</p><p>JB: He could have been a slave.</p><p>HB: Some of his relatives belong to a man named McGriff. Because during this time, that must have been just right around, or just before his birth or something. But they heard about it, they, you know, made such record that they had in their head. There are a set of people. Set of colored people, you know, one white, some white guy bought and take them away...</p><p>JB: Still was doing that then?</p><p>HB: No. That was my grandfather. He was born at the last part of that time or just past that. Because they talked and my mother remembered. They kept a record.</p><p>JB: I know. Right away.</p><p>HB: Somebody brought, somebody bought, I don't know if it was my grandfather's brother or what but some ancestor of mine, they bought that man and took him out west originally to Texas. And I don't know the county now but my mother did remember. She just had a good remembrance.</p><p>JB: A record.</p><p>HB: She heard them say that that's where them people...</p><p>JB: Was taking him.</p><p>HB: When they come from the boat, I don't know who, grandfather...</p><p>JB: Right, right.</p><p>HB: And took them over there.</p><p>JB: So that's how they trace it down. Because people had good memories then.</p><p>HB: Yeah. Well then after I got in the world and got to where I could read a little and write a little, she still remembered. She asked me to write a letter...</p><p>JB: To try to trace...</p><p>HB: She knew there was, it was some county in Texas. She didn't know the town, just the county in Texas where them people were. So she had me write a letter to whatever name that was, in that county in Texas. And she got a reply. She got an answer.</p><p>JB: Is that a fact?</p><p>HB: And ah, then they send pictures and letters. They used to correspond by letter. I was the one to instigate, and I was the one to read and write a little. So I read it an all that. But at that time, when these letters came, that cleared up. Because when we first wrote the county in Texas...</p><p>JB: Yeah, then you got the right address.</p><p>HB: Then we got the right address. It was Carson County. But at the time we got this Carson County, I pronounced it as Carters County. I was cutting them away now as Carters County.</p><p>JB: Close enough.</p><p>HB: But the reaction was Carson County. And if I'm not mistaken, if we didn't go to Carson County, we went close to that. Because we went through the state of Texas when I went out, down the, out west. And I thought about them people then. I said, "If I had known, that if I had known the address, I<span style="white-space: pre;"> </span> got along this far, I'd stop, go by, and say hello to them." Probably some of them still there.</p><p>JB: Some of them might still be tracing that.</p><p>HB: On top of the communications, they'd send pictures. And it was one of them pictures, a man looked just like my grandfather.</p><p>JB: Son of a gun.</p><p>HB: And another thing, they... the lord did it I guess, because they named their peoples over there something like the names we had over here. Because I have cousins named Calvin and they had somebody over there named Calvin. They named them the same as Alabama. It was just something similar.</p><p>JB: Probably we should have been starting on this a lot earlier because the time... I'm supposed to go to the west side, right around, I was supposed to have been over there a little after 10. But the next thing you know, you know, it... but you get in, you get involved and be a lot of interesting information, you know. We could probably still get together some other time. But what I want to do is maybe right here before I split, is to follow up, at least up to this day, you know, then, of course, you and mother had problems, you know, got divorced. And then you remarried. Do you recall what year that was?</p><p>HB: [Long pause] No. I wouldn't know exactly. But 1926 wouldn't miss it too far.</p><p>JB: Oh. No that's when you and mother got married.</p><p>HB: Yeah.</p><p>JB: Alright. 1926. No. I was saying after you got to Detroit and after you guys got married, then I guess about 1940 was it something that you were separated and divorced.</p><p>HB: Yeah.</p><p>JB: Then after you remarried, I was trying to think of the year of your second marriage.</p><p>HB: The second marriage...</p><p>JB: 1950s or 40s...</p><p>HB: was ah, 39, I believe...</p><p>JB: Oh. 1939.</p><p>HB: I believe is was 39. I think it was 39. Because Harold is 38 years old.</p><p>JB: Oh, he's only 38?</p><p>HB: Yeah. He was born on Christmas Day.</p><p>JB: Oh, he's a youngster.</p><p>HB: He was born 1940, Christmas Day.</p><p>JB: 1940. Oh.</p><p>HB: That's why I'm judging it must have been around...</p><p>JB: Oh, right. Oh, I see. He's just like Jesus Christ.</p><p>HB: Hmm?</p><p>JB: Jesus Christ, 19... born on Christmas Day. Son of a gun. That's Capricorn.</p><p>HB: Hmm?</p><p>JB: That's the Capricorn sign. Christmas.</p><p>HB: What's that?</p><p>JB: I mean, you know, a sign like say, you know, Virgo.</p><p>HB: I don't know.</p><p>JB: That stand for... yeah, 19, 20... I think he's on the verge of the sign... I think he had to be... No, that's right.</p><p>HB: You know, you know all the time. That's hard, hmm?</p><p>JB: Oh, well I was into that for a while, you know. I was studying that. That's what's called astrology, you know.</p><p>HB: Uh, huh.</p><p>JB: And I used to study that a little bit.</p><p>HB: Mmm...</p><p>JB: I see...</p><p>HB: Remember I told you about what they tell whatever the sign would be.</p><p>JB: Yeah, right, right, right. What is Bettie's birthday?</p><p>HB: I can't tell you that.</p><p>JB: She's younger though, isn't she?</p><p>HB: Yeah. She's the one here.</p><p>JB: And, but you don't remember.</p><p>HB: No. I don't know. She's a couple of years younger must have been.</p><p>JB: A couple of years. So she was around 1942. You're remembering well. I can't remember nothing myself. That's why I write stuff. That's why I use the tape recorder and write stuff down because I can't remember it.</p><p>HB: When somebody asks me, I tell them my birthday was 1895 September 6th. But when the birthday comes I can't even remember.</p><p>JB: Yeah, right.</p><p>HB: If somebody don't call me or write to me or something to remind me, I'll pass my own birthday up. And the same thing about whatever day it is. Like, for instance, Valentines. People already celebrating and all that. Well that will get me to know that Valentines is drawing near, or is here, or just past. Because it's all ready here. I just can't realize it.</p><p>JB: Right, right, right. We can get back, back in to it maybe one day because I'm going to be here until Sunday. I'm supposed to get together, I talked with Zoretta last night.</p><p>HB: You talked with Zoretta.</p><p>JB: Right.</p><p>HB: They live out at South Gate.</p><p>JB: South Gate or something like that. I may go by there Saturday. And so I got three, four more rounds to make that. I started to come by last night after I got back from uh, from the hospital, no, yeah, the hospital. And, you know, I think I talked to you last night a little bit.</p><p>HB: Yeah.</p><p>JB: I should have come on by about 8:00. I remember maybe we set a chat two or three hours, whatever. But still this is good information. It gave me a start and then maybe if I think of some other questions, you think of something else you think might be interesting, you know.</p><p>HB: Uh-huh.</p><p><br /></p>Steve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-513035670406968582021-05-19T06:48:00.008-07:002021-06-01T09:20:26.978-07:00Joe Brazil Interviews Al McKibbon<p>November 1, 1974</p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi9IvnKqPzrUc704N8mVDeoyvfXyBuw2mNT48cTY4OfFdFVXNEqnJFf7n0qxpDtdAcGEzFMdZF3dJ3ICA3Hnluf9By9Rhrl3Pk6aQ6IIodAmA-pqBrCwRUeVW-2_E_tKXgrPShRYdKvNdg/s1024/Al_McKibbon-140915-0037-110WP.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1024" data-original-width="683" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi9IvnKqPzrUc704N8mVDeoyvfXyBuw2mNT48cTY4OfFdFVXNEqnJFf7n0qxpDtdAcGEzFMdZF3dJ3ICA3Hnluf9By9Rhrl3Pk6aQ6IIodAmA-pqBrCwRUeVW-2_E_tKXgrPShRYdKvNdg/s320/Al_McKibbon-140915-0037-110WP.jpg" /></a></div>Joe Brazil: It appears to see if this is working. Probably. This tape is possibly bad. Or it is possible that the microphone or some other mechanism was not working right. <p></p><p>We expect to have Mr. Al McKibbon. We made an announcement… I made an announcement about the review and everything so great. </p><p>Let’s talk about some of the players that you have been listening to, some possibilities. </p><p>These are lecture notes.</p><p>I was a little late today, but I think it was well worth our while. One of the finest musicians in the world happened to be touring in town with the Sammy Davis group agreed to come out and just chat with you. Something about the history of the music. I won’t go into it in too much detail because we want to try to use as much time as we can for him to lecture and discuss something about the music. This bass player, he was around during the Charlie Parker era, the Forties. He played with Dizzy Gillespie, “Lucky” Millinder, Coleman Hawkins, Count Basie, four or five years with George Shearing, many, many others. How about a nice hand for Mr. Al McKibbon?</p><p>[Applause]</p><p>We’re just going to kind of keep it loose. I don’t know if any of you might… he’s actually from Detroit and I feel kind of very close to him. Went to Cass Tech. What’s up?</p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgSQcBT2wFpGTIe93-lBW_MMMUMzoPKvTIk6DQwRyITXg9OVuJAScRwzGd47-qGgJRJrcHnDHhuYBMSRrmzy5exUY4A8mlkINDLUgZmvXlTrEXG9_fbHf68zkemFv0v922ajoD2T0wZEfU/s1200/Cass+Tech+Postcard.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="777" data-original-width="1200" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgSQcBT2wFpGTIe93-lBW_MMMUMzoPKvTIk6DQwRyITXg9OVuJAScRwzGd47-qGgJRJrcHnDHhuYBMSRrmzy5exUY4A8mlkINDLUgZmvXlTrEXG9_fbHf68zkemFv0v922ajoD2T0wZEfU/s320/Cass+Tech+Postcard.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>Al McKibbon: Cass Tech was a school, only a high school, but very technical. They had a… they furnished instruments for as many as a hundred-piece orchestra plus concert band. The curriculum was that you must have academics plus whatever your major was in music. Also, four terms of piano was required. And of course within all that they had jazz orchestras and choruses and all that. I think it was one of the most complete high schools I’ve ever found in the world. <p></p><p>A lot of people came out of the school, like Joe Brazil, Lucky Thompson, Milt Jackson, Howard McGee… Huh, I can’t think of many of them right now. Teddy Edwards. You name it. Quite a few. Wardell Gray. Maybe some people you don’t even remember. They were active back in the forties. Did you know any of them? [Laughter] You know Milt Jackson, right? </p><p>So anyhow, I went to that school. Of course I had to study after that privately. I studied with Mr. [Herman] Reinshagen who was 36-year principal bass with the New York Philharmonic. I studied with him in California where I now live. </p><p>After leaving Detroit I went to New York City with… well they needed musicians very bad at that time. It was war time so I got a lucky break with “Lucky” Millinder. And after that went to 52nd street and worked with Coleman Hawkins and Charlie Parker and all those people current at that time. </p><p>And then after that I started to think about the money, so I went with Jazz at the Philharmonic. And after that it was Café Society downtown in New York City and made a European tour with Dizzy Gillespie. I played with Miles Davis’ first group, Thelonious Monk’s small group, and then I really went for the money and started working with George Shearing. People say, “How can you play with a small group like George Shearing after all the hard jazz you’ve been playing, versus with Dizzy’s big band where we would play Manteca and Things to Come, One Bass Hit, all those things. How can you play with a small group like George Shearing and be happy?” Well I said, “Because George Shearing, at that time, pays more money than all those other people.” </p><p>I realized to go through Florence, Ohio and visit my brother and he said, “Al, you didn’t win the jazz poll this year.” I said, “Well, no I didn’t win the jazz poll but the winner of the jazz poll is not working. [Laughter] </p><p>So, you know, I believe if you put a lot of time in whatever you’re studying, you should get paid for it. I think it’s a shame that the symphony orchestras of the day, make less money than I make playing behind Sammy Davis Jr. That’s ridiculous. There’s people spending a lifetime studying an instrument to become proficient and top of their fields and to have to go through rigorous auditions and keep up on current libraries and all that, and they make less money than I do. That’s a sad commentary on the state of the arts. </p><p>In the meantime I’m trying to have fun and here I am so I would like to answer questions if you’d like to ask some. </p><p>Male voice: Could you go into more detail about 52nd street and how it was down there.</p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhzGU8gY_2BghV9E3_sJc1E_tqnU-PWsZVqQMVvn_8Xj_AsOSvaTcfVSuHj4afGVoSTZ-eqgK57F4V6m6GVzTnAEoDkFdnpr8WsyrQ_erEiYLyAZJ-Zq2aOBuTMmhryuUJAOXiM4n9YFQw/s2048/52nd_Street%252C_New_York_City%252C_NY_0001_original.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1597" data-original-width="2048" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhzGU8gY_2BghV9E3_sJc1E_tqnU-PWsZVqQMVvn_8Xj_AsOSvaTcfVSuHj4afGVoSTZ-eqgK57F4V6m6GVzTnAEoDkFdnpr8WsyrQ_erEiYLyAZJ-Zq2aOBuTMmhryuUJAOXiM4n9YFQw/s320/52nd_Street%252C_New_York_City%252C_NY_0001_original.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>AM: More detail? Well on 52nd street there was a block of clubs that were only basements of tenement houses converted into small one room nightclubs. They were pretty dingy, actually. But the people who owned them, knew of the wealth of jazz musicians in New York City at that time. It was war-time. And New York at the time was the mecca of all jazz musicians so they would just get… oh I remember it, one time there was Dizzy Gillespie and Charlie Parker at the 3 Deuces. Next door at the Downbeat was Billy Holliday, Art Tatum, and um… the group I was playing with I don’t remember. [Laughter] Next to that was the Spotlite club with Dizzy’s big band and there was always two or three groups in each so all the musicians would play their little set, then run next door and see what those people were doing. Of course, Dizzy Gillespie and Charlie Parker had everybody in front of their place. On the other side of the street they had a couple of Dixieland clubs that I wasn’t too thrilled about. They had the best Dixieland music. And one jazz spot that featured vocalists, usually. <p></p><p>But 52nd street was kind of a way of life until the underworld move in and always moves musicians out. Whenever they come in with the pushers and whatever, then music goes out the back door because people become afraid to frequent the places with the freedom they used to exercise. So 52nd street had to go the way of all places. It just became notorious because of outsiders, not because of the music. The music was always excellent. </p><p>Female voice: Do you have any remembrances of Billie Holiday?</p><p>AM: Ha. Yes. I knew Billie Holiday. I used to call her William because her name was Billie. Ahh… Billie Holiday was… ahh… quite… she was nothing like the movie. Nothing at all like the movie.</p><p>FV: How about her book?</p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjyuo7-_O_vwjkzfy21qc0n8bJZnnwkADQnn7clqiuRb1LGpeOkdqs-8ivYnml0wSk8FphRZvFkqQlZFRLyCQtQwvKrsT5L8gxbbrhyiGjJQkwwopZ8NG5BBs0GA4kL_hppR-Iv0f99FLY/s394/LadySingsTheBlues.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="394" data-original-width="256" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjyuo7-_O_vwjkzfy21qc0n8bJZnnwkADQnn7clqiuRb1LGpeOkdqs-8ivYnml0wSk8FphRZvFkqQlZFRLyCQtQwvKrsT5L8gxbbrhyiGjJQkwwopZ8NG5BBs0GA4kL_hppR-Iv0f99FLY/s320/LadySingsTheBlues.jpg" /></a></div>AM: Her book? Well the book was fairly true. But, you know, there are so many things that are just better unsaid about a person’s personal life and she didn’t put all those things in the book. And the movie was just a vehicle for Diana Ross, more or less. Because Billie Holiday was a pretty plump lady with a hell of a feeling for jazz and very soulful and very hung up on narcotics, uh, bisexual, and a very strong lady. <p></p><p>In fact she used to scare me to death, you know. She said uh, she could never remember my name, she said, “Hey, bass. I saw you last night with your missus. How come you didn’t speak? Are you afraid I’d get fresh with your missus?” Well, that’s the kind of lady she was. [Laughter] </p><p>Yeah, you know? Well, you asked me. I’m just telling you. Nothing at all… [Laughter] Nothing at all like to movie. You know? In fact, uh, they were afraid to sell drinks whenever she was on stage. But when she started to sing you wouldn’t want a drink any how because she had the gardenia and her eyes almost closed, you know, and she would be singing those songs, you know, and she’d cast a spell. She’d really… </p><p>The best way to listen to Billie Holiday is get the early records because they started to take advantage of her bad name when they put out the late records and her voice was through. She was done. Ankles were swollen, elbows, and she… Boy, she was just through. She was just hanging on by a thread. And, uh, the police used to just follow her around to shake her down, you know? Since she was kind of miserable near the end of her career. But one of the best singers ever.</p><p>Male voice: What’s the walking bass style?</p><p>AM: What is it?</p><p>MV: Yeah. What does it sound like?</p><p>AM: Well, ah… you know, as we call, what we call jazz, always gets labels that, ah, come from people that have nothing to do with it, as a rule, you know. So they, it’s just an old expression that when the bass was really playing a good strong rhythm they would say, “Hey, he’s walking.” It’s not really anything in particular. Just means to play a good rhythm with a good line.</p><p>MV: Where does the term, “Taking a ‘Boston’ come from?”</p><p>AM: You know, I don’t know. That’s a little too old for me. [laughter] But I have heard that. I heard it from older musicians. They say, uh, “Take a ‘Boston,’” which meant, “Play an ad lib solo.” But I think it was a very old expression that was used by earlier musicians.</p><p>MV: Two questions. Who is your inspiration and where is Sammy [Davis] playing? I haven’t heard anything about it.</p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiEhaKcLuH7ue8godccB-JFlp6bxL_CnwHzdOOG-bebjQ4IF1zzBsZqy3jKkaclekM4p8aq9K1DnJ-EmTQE-F0-9asf2-6jzDwAGNKuZvNQeLGnjVaJYxhO4cN65nYLAjSUGHHdVUGkWH8/s1600/Sammy-Davis-Jr-Rare-Concert-Poster-Oct-Nov-1974.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="1442" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiEhaKcLuH7ue8godccB-JFlp6bxL_CnwHzdOOG-bebjQ4IF1zzBsZqy3jKkaclekM4p8aq9K1DnJ-EmTQE-F0-9asf2-6jzDwAGNKuZvNQeLGnjVaJYxhO4cN65nYLAjSUGHHdVUGkWH8/s320/Sammy-Davis-Jr-Rare-Concert-Poster-Oct-Nov-1974.jpg" /></a></div>AM: Sammy is at the Paramount Theater. We’re doing two shows tonight. Did one last night. Two tonight and then we’re going to Portland. <p></p><p>And my inspirations came from quite a few people. In Detroit, my hometown, there was a dance every Monday night at the Graystone Ballroom that had all the big-name bands. And it was a big dance town and I was always very tall so I could get in when I was very young. I would stand in front of the bandstand, my mouth open, you know? </p><p>And I saw, oh, gee, I saw Wellman Braud, used to be Duke Ellington’s original bass player. And I always admired his volume and tone. So I, kind of, listened to that. And I listened to Pops Foster. And then, after I learned to play like Walter Page, he was Count Basie’s original bass player, I heard Jimmy Blanton, and started to chop up my bass and throw it away. [laughter] Because he, ah, he… he was the first not to play a walking, as they call it, bass style. When it came to his solo, he would play like a horn. So when I first heard that, it turned me completely around. This young kid was only about, oh, 19 years old and already playing with Duke Ellington, you know. Featured with Duke Ellington. Well that’s quite a thing.</p><p>MV: Do you play a stand-up bass or an amplified bass?</p><p>AM: I play them both. Yeah, well, you know, these days, the stand-up bass is still being used but, if you want to make money, you have to play them both. And I really want to make some money, man. [laughter] I don’t want to be here forever. Really, you know. When it gets so that bass is heavy, well then… Like, I don’t stand and play anymore. I sit down. That’s a sign of something. I don’t know what it is. [laughter] </p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgy-C3s3bZKtHKDTwcOjjQFuqhDhcQCLPV9Vvayzqe0MNq7npL7SYDT_iE7_-njY8rOEfM1t1tLYiEW2eo7mDlt1AetUh0VocJ2kuD0xFQK6wmro-N8hHDctZsBsTR5wJXfiir8-0vb_QU/s600/Giants+of+Jazz.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="590" data-original-width="600" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgy-C3s3bZKtHKDTwcOjjQFuqhDhcQCLPV9Vvayzqe0MNq7npL7SYDT_iE7_-njY8rOEfM1t1tLYiEW2eo7mDlt1AetUh0VocJ2kuD0xFQK6wmro-N8hHDctZsBsTR5wJXfiir8-0vb_QU/s320/Giants+of+Jazz.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>MV: I believe you were a member of the Giants of Jazz group with the Jazz at the Philharmonic.<p></p><p>AM: Yeah.</p><p>MW: You were connected to… like, what’s the history behind how to get this young super group together?</p><p>AM: Well, they make you an offer you can’t refuse. [laughter] </p><p>You see, the Giants of Jazz… I did a world tour three years ago, but, ah, Dizzy Gillespie, Sonny Stitt, Art Blakey, Thelonious Monk, Kai Winding – trombone, and we travelled around the world doing jazz concerts for George Wein, who’s, ah, the Newport Jazz outfit. And so, I live in Hollywood and I was just out there doing studio work because I don’t want to travel anymore. But he called me and asked me if I could make the tour and I said, “Well, I really don’t want to travel anymore, George.” And he said, “Well, I’ll pay you…” and I said, “You’ve got me.” [laughter] It was that simple. </p><p>Same way with… Norman Granz used to be a disk jockey in Los Angeles before he started Jazz at the Philharmonic. And he started doing some concerts locally. And they became so popular that he became international. In fact, he lives in Switzerland now. With his bank roll that he’s made off us musicians. By paying us weakly – w-e-a-k-l-y, [laughter] he’s made his bank roll and has retired. But he’s been a great influence and supporter of jazz. I must say that about him.</p><p>MV: Don’t forget his new label, Pablo. Are you doing anything with that?</p><p>AM: No.</p><p>MV: Of the guys you played with, who did you enjoy playing with the most?</p><p>AM: Dizzy Gillespie.</p><p>MV: Why is that?</p><p>AM: Dizzy Gillespie? Well, when I was in his big band in 1948, we had people in the band like James Moody, and, oh, so many people who became stars after that. And Dizzy would come on the bandstand and he would warm up his horn. He would say, “What do you guys want to play?” Well, God! How can you not like working for a guy like that, you know? [laughter] He would say, “What do you guys want to play?” And then he would out play everybody. [laughter] </p><p>Well, you know, Dizzy Gillespie, whoever named him was really farsighted because he is… We were playing a small band concert in Paris in, ah, matinee. And we were on a little stage with a curtain. So we played in the ensemble and after the ensemble was a saxophone solo, naturally. So Dizzy stepped behind the curtains, you know. </p><p>And we kept playing and playing and playing. Say, “What the… why, why this guy doesn’t come out. Let’s finish the tune. So I looked back behind the curtain. He’s back there making love to some girl. [laughter] It’s time for him to play the chorus and go out. He’s back there smooching. [laughter] Come on! So that’s why, you know, I think I enjoyed working with him more than anyone. [laughter] Not because of the smooching. No. </p><p>But, you know, ah, not only that, but Dizzy, is from Cheraw, um, North Carolina, South, South Carolina, and he, uh, he took the band once to that little school he used to go to. And when you see what a background he came from, you can appreciate what a tremendous talent this man has. He’s not only… You know, had Dizzy been another type of person, I think he would be a retired millionaire. He came along with an entire new style of trumpet playing, a new style of dressing, a new style of talking, acting… You know, people ask me, “What was that music you guys are playing?” He said, “Bebop.” Which means nothing. [laughter] But he, that’s just his style. He said, “Bebop,” so that was it. </p><p>So he, uh… Right now, I think Dizzy Gillespie is one of the greatest stylists, trumpet players, innovators in jazz. And he has his ears completely open to anything that’s going on. Everything that’s going on. </p><p>Except what Miles Davis is playing right now, which, I don’t know what that is either. [chuckles] But, uh, we saw Miles in Berlin and Dizzy said, “Miles, I wanna… I’d really like to understand what that is that you people are playing there. Can you explain it to me?” </p><p>So Miles said, “Hit ‘C’ over there on the piano.” </p><p>So Dizzy hit the “C”. </p><p>“Bong.” </p><p>He said, “Now forget about that!” [laughter] “Think about all those other notes you can play on top of that.” </p><p>I said, “Well…” [laughter] </p><p>You know, so, ha, I like all kinds of music but, uh, that’s a little strong. And when you have to have a whole bank of electronics behind you in order to play, I think that takes so much from it. That takes almost all of it for me because, you know, in the older days when you wanted to make a louder sound, you played harder. If you wanted to make a round sound, you used your best technique. If you wanted to make a quick sound, you did it yourself. </p><p>But now, if you want to change anything, you flick a switch. So I think, after a while they’re going to program everything, you know? And you say, “Come to see the Moog synthesizer,” you know, and you just sit out there and the man presses a button and, you know, you’ll hear the music and see the picture and everything. And then we’re all going to be out of work. [laughter] It’s going to be all over. </p><p>Oh, I want to say about rock music now. Ha. I like rock music, when it’s good, musical, and has more than one chord. You know? [laughter] Yeah, I like that. I like that. That’s very good, you know? Sometimes it has tremendous pulse and people can get out and dance, you know? And all that. I think that’s marvelous. And I think it’s all part of our heritage because it’s simple rock and roll or rhythm and blues or whatever. </p><p>You know, I think that’s a, that’s kind of pitiful, too. I remember when they had jukeboxes, they had three columns of music. They had race music, which was rock and roll, and pop, and country. And now it’s all one. And anybody who can play one chord on a guitar can get a group together, the Three Monkeys, you know? [laughter] Yeah. And make five times as much money as a symphony orchestra. You know? I think that’s pretty bad.</p><p>JB: Is there any more questions?</p><p>[bell rings]</p><p>AM: Who are they? Aw, man, they got some, woo-hoo, Stan Clarke and Ron Carter and uh, Rufus Reid or Richard Davis, my friend, yeah.</p><p>MV: Let’s have a nice hand for Al McKibbon. </p><p>[applause]</p><p>AM: Thank you.</p><p>JB: So you can catch him tonight, folks said you can catch him at the Paramount Theater with Sammy Davis’ group.</p><p>[talking as class leaves]</p><p>Female voice: Thank you for coming to talk to our class.</p>Steve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-58593953119317495032021-05-16T07:25:00.006-07:002021-06-01T06:29:49.455-07:00Joe Brazil Family Tree<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEghppY6DKSWSfAt05oWM59eUB7RMsWK5gk1VneJtDuEA_17Y1SduRDXTLxTU5u6WMrTeSItFDD8Ah1LTt3Lmr5Sc8TU37MjdRC5GRn_fgG6sGlyBAWGbDZ38co4VvrqcL2uBVqgpelRMcw/s1056/Family+tree.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1056" data-original-width="816" height="596" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEghppY6DKSWSfAt05oWM59eUB7RMsWK5gk1VneJtDuEA_17Y1SduRDXTLxTU5u6WMrTeSItFDD8Ah1LTt3Lmr5Sc8TU37MjdRC5GRn_fgG6sGlyBAWGbDZ38co4VvrqcL2uBVqgpelRMcw/w459-h596/Family+tree.jpg" width="459" /></a></div><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><br /></div><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><br /></div><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br /></div><br />Steve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-250077775636674032021-04-16T12:24:00.003-07:002021-06-01T06:31:30.842-07:00 Out of this World: John Coltrane in Seattle<p>by Keith Raether</p><p>Published in Earshot Jazz, April 1995, Vol. 11, No. 4</p><p>Late in the morning on Oct. 1, 1965, drummer Elvin Jones was rummaging through Jan Kurtis' kitchen in Lynnwood, banging on cast iron skillets, tapping on stainless steel pans. Searching for a new sound. Saxophonist John Coltrane sat quietly at the kitchen table, interrupting his inner focus only to smile at Jones or talk about song charts. Saxophonist Pharoah Sanders, pianist McCoy Tyner, bassists Jimmy Garrison and Donald Rafael Garrett -- the rest of Coltrane's band on a West Coast tour that began in San Francisco -- listened with purpose. Seattle saxophonist Joe Brazil completed the circle.</p><p>"Coltrane seemed to be thinking about a lot of things," says Kurtis, 30 years after he recorded Coltrane's seminal <i>Live in Seattle</i> double album and the otherworldly <i>Om </i>later released on Impulse Records. "There must have been an enormous amount of music going on inside of him."</p><p>Jones, meanwhile, had a cosmos of sound evolving around him. When he wasn't playing pots and pans like a sock cymbal, he was filling soda bottles with water, testing them for timbre. Coltrane had come to Seattle the previous day with his working band, augmented from the usual quartet by Sanders and Garrett, to play a two-night engagement at the Penthouse in Pioneer Square. Kurtis took the call to record the group.</p><p>"I was doing a lot of remote recording at the time," he remembers. And Coltrane was doing even more experimenting. In 1965 the saxophonist recorded at a prolific rate, as if he had received a divine calling. <i>Ascension</i>, recorded in June, broke new ground. The musical conception came to Coltrane in a dream, a dream in which he and his group played without reference to chords or chordal sequences. Within the music Coltrane set up dialogues of tonal and atonal sections similar to the parallel octave passages found in African vocal music.</p><p>Saxophonist Marion Brown, one of the players on the date, described the session as "wildly exciting." "We did two takes and both had that kind of thing in them that makes people scream," he said. "The people in the studio were screaming." Just as Coltrane and company would scream, literally, on the night they recorded <i>Live in Seattle</i>...</p><p><i>Sun Ship</i>, a quartet album, followed <i>Ascension </i>in August. Between the two recording dates Coltranes' group traveled to the south of France for the Antibes Jazz Festival in Juan-Les-Pins. Coltrane was clearly searching for new sound, sound that would convey the vastness of the universe inside him. "I don't think I'll know what's missing from my playing until I find it, if you understand me," he told a writer for Melody Maker at the time.</p><p>Such was Coltrane's state of mind and music when he brought his group to Seattle in late September. He had turned 39 a week before he arrived. He'd thought long and hard about the composition of the band, and now Sanders and Garrett, old friends based in the Bay Area, were with him to intensify both ends of the musical spectrum. He'd thought about time, in the abstract and in the context of his group. Maybe the music needed to be free of meter. Maybe he needed to do away with the harmonic moorings of a piano. He had miles to go before he slept.</p><p>Kurtis, whose true musical interests were in Nashville, didn't know Coltrane from Bobby Goldsboro when he got the call to engineer the Penthouse date. But he knew a world about recording and brought the better part of his recording studio, Camelot, to the Pioneer Square club. "I think it was Bob Friede of KRAB-FM who contacted me about the recording -- 30 years is a lot of water under the bridge," he says. "I didn't know anything about Coltrane's music. And I certainly didn't know then how groundbreaking it was."</p><p>Kurtis lent his best recording equipment to the cause: an Ampex 350-2 tape recorder, two Ampex six-channel mixers, two Sony condensor mikes for Jones' drums and a large-diaphragm mike for Garrison's bass. "Everybody in the group had at least one mike," he says. "It was a studio setup for the most part. There wasn't a lot of live recording being done like that back then. I wanted to go all out."</p><p>On an emerald night in Seattle, Coltrane's group responded in kind. "Evolution" unfolded for 36 minutes, filling the better part of two sides of the original double album. "Body and Soul" and "Afro-Blue," traditional by comparison (and released for the first time on the new GRP reissue of <i>Live in Seattle</i>) were stretched light years beyond their limits. "Cosmos" demonstrated that Sanders was very much a "free" player and a perfect match for Coltrane at the time. "Out of This World," a serene, long-line ballad by Harold Arlen (from the 1945 film), first recorded by Coltrane in 1962, reached so far toward Andromeda that Kurtis didn't recognize it from the opening theme.</p><p>Coltrane was anxious to hear the playback of the tape and spent the rest of the night with headphones on. He was so impressed with the technical quality of the recording ("The tape was incredibly clear," says Kurtis) that he asked to come out to Camelot the following day. Kurtis had just finished converting the building next to his Lynnwood house into the Seattle equivalent of Rudy Van Gelder's studio in Englewood Cliffs, N.J. He was more than happy to oblige."</p><p>I was in my late 20's at the time, and it was all I could do just to concentrate on getting the mike setups right," he remembers. "Of the band, I remember Elvin most of all. When he found out I was a drummer, he showed me some licks. I could never play them in a thousand years. He also tried to explain what the new music was all about."</p><p>Coltrane was pretty quiet all day but very friendly. Everybody in the group was friendly -- and very respectful of the place. There was a lot of work to be done in a short time, of course, and the band was busy trying out things before we started to record."</p><p>To prepare for what writer David Wild would later call "the cathartic, acid-etched' music on Om, Kurtis put Jones' drums behind barriers, or "splays," that absorbed his voluminous sound in three inches of insulation. Garrison and Garrett had their own "cubbyholes" for maximum clarity and resonance. Coltrane, Sanders, Tyner and Brazil, who played flute on the date, claimed the rest of the room as their universe.</p><p>"It was a remarkable experience just watching them work," says Kurtis. "I was in a kind of Oz. Coltrane didn't say a lot, but he was in control of everything the band was doing. They were so far ahead of the times."</p><p>The <i>Om </i>session began around noon with an incantation: "I the Oblation and I the Flame into which it is offered / I am the fire of the world and this world's mother and grandfather / I am Om Om Om Om Om Om! Om!" The music stopped six hours later but didn't end.</p><p>Two months after Om was made, Coltrane was at the Village Gate, leading a band that featured percussionist Rashied Ali in addition to Elvin Jones. It was the saxophonist's first experiment with a two-drummer format. On Nov. 23, he recorded <i>Meditations </i>in the company of both Ali and Jones. A few weeks later, Tyner and Jones left the band."</p><p>A musician like John shouldn't have to depend on piano all the time," Tyner would say later. "Sometimes the piano, as an orchestral instrument, can get in the way of a soloist, especially a horn player." Especially a horn player with the sound and singular purpose of Coltrane."</p><p>There is never any end," Coltrane told music writer Nat Hentoff after the <i>Meditation </i>recording. "There are always new sounds to imagine, new feelings to get at. And always, there is the need to keep purifying these feelings and sounds so that we can really see what we've discovered in its pure state. So that we can see more and more clearly what we are. In that way, we can give to those who listen to the essence, the best of what we are."</p><p>For two days in Seattle 30 years ago, Coltrane didn't stop at giving us the best of what he was at the time. He gave us a glimpse of the musical universe to come.</p>Steve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-31615963328599140032020-03-23T15:51:00.002-07:002021-06-01T08:48:02.747-07:00Joe Brazil Interviews McCoy Tyner<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%; text-align: left;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: right;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg_bbtFDTHSxIawoxcsQGaBeaCUZH8Ab0Z-6VeV0ZnT9x-bOfQlw9rmof0zsDwyyoOI245-lVOQdwXtH3SldnwGjmfMGuJtfRHYyiAU6W373qwAjM_lGN39rEjjYlpSxDYY9yRepIpKNk0/s1600/McCoy+Tyner.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1163" data-original-width="1600" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg_bbtFDTHSxIawoxcsQGaBeaCUZH8Ab0Z-6VeV0ZnT9x-bOfQlw9rmof0zsDwyyoOI245-lVOQdwXtH3SldnwGjmfMGuJtfRHYyiAU6W373qwAjM_lGN39rEjjYlpSxDYY9yRepIpKNk0/s320/McCoy+Tyner.jpg" width="320" /></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Joe Brazil with McCoy Tyner</td></tr></tbody></table>November 22, 1971<br /><br />
</span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%; text-align: left;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">McCoy Tyner: [Plays] That’s what I
was saying. Lots of the things we used to play. We didn’t really discuss
things. [Laughter] That’s why it’s so hard for me now to talk about it. We didn’t
talk about music. We just played. [Laughter].<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
Joe Brazil: Would he by any chance
run down the cycle of what he was doing? Or did he just do it?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: Except for Giant Steps. You
know. He would say, “I’m playing the cycle of fifths.” After a while he just
stopped playing that.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: What about some other stuff like
Body and Soul?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: That was a set… he had written
out certain chords, set chords, for that, alternate chords. He fit the cycle there,
the cycle of fifths in there, that’s why they got in there.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: He kept developing. Like when
you heard, what was the tune that was a big hit? Favorite Things. On the original
record, and then I heard it in Seattle and you know [laughs] it had developed.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: Yeah. I understand. You see
that wasn’t… We didn’t… See that’s what I’m talking about. That’s why it’s so
hard. I can’t really… I don’t think it’s really important to explain it. Because
you <i>can’t</i>. All I know is that my ear developed to a point, playing with
him…<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: Of course. I guess it’s like a
reciprocal thing.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: Years ago, cats could say I’m
breaking down this, breaking down that, playing this and playing that. It’s not
<i>like</i> that.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: That’s what I was bringing up.
I don’t think it could be defined.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: It <i>can’t</i> be defined. I
don’t know. Maybe we should get that on tape.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: Ok. [Laughter. Tape turns off
and on]<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: …Miles and the flat five…Dizzy
came out with that type of thing.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: Like Woody ‘n’ You?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: [plays chords from Woody ‘n’
You] And during that time there was a certain, everybody played a certain type
of way.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: What if you’re teaching a cat?
Like you say your teaching cats in New York. Say if you were teaching a cat
that was maybe developed a little bit. What would be your approach of teaching
him then?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: Well, you see, most of these
kids aren’t taught.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: Beginners, yeah.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: Some of them weren’t but they
didn’t know a lot of the fundamental things.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: Then it’s a basic thing –
scales, see what notes, what finger to use.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: The only thing I could really do
would be to maybe show them how certain chords can go against another.
Something like that. And the scale relationship to the chords. So they wouldn’t
have to be limited to playing within the chord, necessarily, but using the
chord itself as a pedal to launch off on to something else.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: Well maybe we could benefit by
something like that. [Laughter]<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: [plays chords over a G pedal] Like
if I play G minor… this is one thing I was doing when I was working with John,
is that each note of the scale could be a chord.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: Right.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: You could use each note of the
scale and develop as a chord or a sound. In G minor, for instance, you have
[plays] and you’ve got B-flat minor [plays]. B-flat minor could be a complete
sound within itself. The G is <i>still there</i>. But you know where you started
from. The B-flat minor is within that sound. All the notes of that particular
scale is within that particular sound. So you are actually not wrong. You could
get a G. [plays] See, it’s still there. C minor. [plays]<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: It’s like planting that sound
and then doing whatever that sound fits here.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: Yeah.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: You plant that sound and then
it remains.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: Right. It’s all the way
through. It’s like a… it’s something to <i>launch</i> yourself off. You launch
yourself off that. See it still gives you the freedom to play within that
sound. Because like, there’s a thing, like, if you start off like Jones used to
play, boom-chick-boom, he played time, ding-ding-dink-a-ding-dink-a-ding.
Nowadays they don’t play like that. When you start a tune off you know where
the time is. We were playing off the pulse. Like it sounded like we were playing
a lot of things that at the centers. Sounded like we were playing with no time.
Well, actually, there wasn’t no ding-ding-ding, we were playing off like a pulse.
You don’t walk to the sound of your heartbeat. Your heart says, “boomp, boomp.”
You don’t say, “boomp, boomp” trying to keep up with your heartbeat. Your heart
is beating at a <i>rhythm</i> and you are walking at <i>another</i> rhythm. It’s
the same thing with playing music. Just because you are playing in a <i>key</i>,
that doesn’t mean that you are <i>limited</i> to the key itself. There are so
many things that are <i>related</i> to that particular key. It’s like I was
saying in G minor, you look at a standard tune, the way it resolves, the natural
resolution would be maybe to go to C minor. The reason they resolve is because C
is part of the key itself. So are other notes.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: In other words, one is not more
important than the others.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: Yeah.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: Like tonic is more important,
but not necessarily.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: Yeah. All over music, they have
established a drone or a certain thing. A drone. Like in Africa, the rhythms
are the tone, you may start at any particular tone, or any particular key, or drone,
then they would take that and everything else would happen on top of that. And
you can take it as far as you want to go. As long as you know where you came
from.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: So, if you were practicing.
What would you sit down and practice? I mean, like, scales, or make up a cycle
and then try to develop it?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: I don’t practice like that
anymore.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: What would you practice like?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: Scales. When I do practice, I
practice scales. Theory is good up to a point. After that… I’m saying it’s good
to <i>know</i> it, it’s good to know how a brother’s approach to improvising,
but up to a certain <i>point</i>, it’s a matter of what you hear and how you
can develop it. It’s a matter of emotions. It’s a matter of knowing <i>form</i>.
I may be playing in a different key and all of the sudden decide to go, according
to my <i>feelings</i>, to a chord that’s maybe related to that key or maybe one
that’s <i>not</i> related to that key.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: You know, the point I’m getting
at is maybe somebody else may be hearing these same things but they don’t have
the capabilities of <i>doing</i> it. You might feel like you want to go there,
and do something very different, but then you haven’t gotten yourself developed
to go there. You know?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: Well, that’s the thing.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: So how’s the guy going to
develop?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: If he can <i>hear</i>, he’ll <i>do</i>
it. It’s a matter of really playing your instrument well enough so that you can
<i>do</i> what you can hear.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: That goes back to that other thing.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: Yeah. There’s a certain part,
an area of music you can’t explain.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
Unknown voice: It’s like a
transition.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: Our music has never been a
Western concept of explaining music.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: Yeah. Right. Right. [Laughter]<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: Our music has never <i>been</i>
like that – explained. Even in Indian music, they take a raga, they have 700 scales,
700 ragas, one for the morning, one for the evening. Sounds pretty restrictive.
But then they take that raga and they <i>work</i> with it. In between the notes
and everything like that. And they <i>improvise</i>, like all black peoples of
the earth always improvise their music. We never sit down and systemize
everything where it came from. That’s why I say it’s moved out of the realm of…
see, what’s happening, I think it’s <i>wrong</i> to make a study, I mean when I
say wrong, I think for musicians, if you’re trying to approach it from a
teaching aspect, that’s different. I think for musicians to take it and study
it to the point wherein they say, “This brother broke this chord up here so
that’s the way it’s supposed to go. I know it was broke up that way so I’m
going to stick with that.” [Laughter]<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: It’s lazy.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: When you reach a certain point,
it’s <i>you</i>, it’s the individual, and the individual effort.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: Has there been a point in your
life where you practiced like 8-10 hours a day?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: Unh, unh.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: I mean, like, 4-5 hours a day
consistently over a couple of years?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: No<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: 4-5 years? You’ve gone beyond
that now.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: Yeah.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: I think for cats to get control
of their instrument, they got to go through that certain period of learning the
instrument.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: That’s the way it is. Learning
the instrument. That’s the whole idea. Otherwise you will be restricted to just
playing a certain area.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: You can’t do something. If you
have the idea, you can’t go there.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: That’s the whole idea is to
learn the instrument well enough to <i>go</i> wherever you can <i>hear</i>. And
by playing an instrument every day and practicing, you’ll go all the places,
but you’ll get tired. Your facility will evolve to the point where you just, you’re
not going to be <i>satisfied</i> with just going right here, playing within 2
octaves. You want to play maybe 2 or 3 octaves or something like that. You want
to try some other direction. That’s the reason why I think a man like Bird, I
heard that he <i>knew</i> what he was doing but he <i>didn’t</i> know what he
was doing. He was playing like that since he was young. Somebody said, “Where did
Bird develop?” He was playing like that ever since he was young. So apparently,
he <i>heard</i> that. You see? He heard that. So what cats did, they made a
study of Bird.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: Somebody will come along after
him.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: Right. What I’m trying to say
is that with <i>him</i> it was a spontaneous thing. It’s like, “Well, God, I
don’t know how you can figure out what he did.” [Laughter] I’m trying to figure
out myself. How I can some kind of way get it across verbally and think it’s
almost <i>impossible</i>. It’s almost impossible because music is a language
that is hard to… you just can’t communicate everything. Some think it’s like a
religious experience. You can’t tell some person, “Man, I felt like this when I
was communicating with God.” It’s just something that you have to experience.
You can give a person an idea. But then the actual thing is…<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: But you’ll know when you get
there.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: Yeah. You’ll know it. I think
that’s just the way it is. Yeah. I was thinking about that, Joe. It’s really a
different approach, man. I don’t know if it’s different. I just think that… I
guess it is different. It’s a supreme power. How can you, ah?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: You just got to experience it.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: You don’t want a guy to be
limited to just what you’ve shown him.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: Right.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: Just what <i>you’re</i> doing.
You want him to have the freedom to express himself. He might know technically
what you’re doing. He might know what that chord is. But why you <i>did</i>,
why you <i>played</i> that chord…<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: At that time.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: At that time. See what I mean.
Or why he decided to maybe play a part of it and mix it up with something else.
He can’t explain <i>why</i> he decided to do that. It’s not a theory of when I’m
going to hit a bulls-eye, I was resolving from here. [Laughter] It’s a thing
where you are more of less functioning on a disparate level.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: When you can get yourself up
that far.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: It’s a different level of
awareness.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
Unknown voice: Yeah. Like I guess
you explained it. I was fooling around with a basketball. You mentioned how those
cats can stand back there an make a <i>basket</i> and don’t touch the rim. I
don’t think you can explain how he does that. If you could just get out book,
damn! [Laughter]<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: Maybe it’s a level that he
developed that’s beyond explanation. That makes him do that. Maybe he’s got a
science. That’s what it is. Music is a science. It’s a science, man. Cats out
there can play musical scientist in many respects. That’s why I think music has
been used in the past, it has been used in many capacities, and it is a form of
worship. And also, it has been used to, it’s being used now in hospitals, in the
past it has been used for many other things. What we call magic now a days. I think
music can be used to stimulate people to do anything.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: Yeah. We were talking about
Yusef and the black scientists and everything. But I bring up an analogy,
sometimes it’s like, when a black musician is playing and he is creating
spontaneously, he must be doing some tremendous things with the mind in order
to be able to be performing, and thinking, and communicating all at once. When
a cat is reading, he is just taking it off the thing. But he’s doing this right
on the moment and he’s creating, he’s composing, and playing. That must take a
great deal of intelligence in order to be able to do that.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: Well that’s what it is. It is
an intelligence that is not used voluntarily. He’s not <i>thinking</i> about
it. That’s the reason why I think we are natural scientists. I was surprised at
electric pop, you know, meaning something as simple as that, a man doesn’t do
that right there, anything you can think of, them being scientists, creating
the sciences that had a hand in bringing about music. I don’t think any of us who
studied on it… but I think a lot of it is natural. I think we are endowed with
more knowledge than we actually realize. Like they say, “You can’t stop it.
Genius. It comes out.” But we don’t believe it. [Laughter] You see, that’s the
thing. A man may have knowledge but if he’s constantly told, “You don’t have none”
then, you know, that’s something you’ve got to believe.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
Unknown voice: One of you here told
me black people were scared of jazz.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: Well, it’s a matter of
proportion because it’s true. I think people are afraid of truth any flavor,
any kind of truth, if they are not used to it, being exposed to it. If they
want to live a false life. If it’s not true you’re only guessing. We need
better ways that will dominate.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
Unknown voice: That’s weird.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: I think we’re going through [unintelligible]
and I think that sometimes something that may not be alien to you but because you
have been misinformed or miseducated will turn you into saying, “That’s <i>strange</i>.
I don’t dig that.” Some people who are ready for it will immediately react and
say, “Let’s run this up.” A lot of the time I think we don’t realize how living
in a society where we have been programmed on just about every angle. I know
you all realize, but you go down to the music, playing certain music that
people in a certain thing are thinking. There is a study, I think, I don’t know
what [unintelligible] There is a study where different tunes affect certain
parts of the body. Certain tones affect certain points of the body. There’s a
science there. That’s the reason why people respond to certain things because it
has like a physical, not only it’s physical but it’s sort of a spiritual and
physical effect on them at the same time, certain notes or certain ways of
playing.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: There’s a book I got called The
Mysticism of Sound.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
MT: Yeah. I haven’t had a chance to
read it yet. You can’t delve into anything without getting into the spiritual aspects.
Without spirit, the body wouldn’t live. That’s the whole thing. That’s what the
key is. That’s the part of Him that’s in us that keeps us alive. When that goes,
we just go away. Back to dust. [Laughter] <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
JB: We got to do that TV show early,
7:30 in the morning.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
[tape ends]<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
[audio tape of TV show]<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
McCoy plays Search for Peace<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
Interview<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 150%;"><span style="font-family: inherit;">
McCoy plays Peresina (partial)<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<br />Steve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-92125880597474109522018-02-23T15:53:00.002-08:002021-06-01T06:31:45.782-07:00Joe Brazil: Justice for Joe<b>JOE BRAZIL: JUSTICE FOR JOE</b><br />
<br />
I originally published this in the April 2012 issue of Earshot Jazz. Most of the facts were gleaned from the University of Washington Archives.<br />
<br />
<b>Attacking the Ivory Tower</b><br />
<br />
A rally at the Husky Union Building on the University of Washington campus kicks off “Joe Brazil Day.” On April 21, 1976, 350 people march to the University President’s Office and present a written demand – before May 5, an open meeting involving testimony from students, faculty, and community be held to officially grant or deny tenure to Assistant Music Professor Joe Brazil. Brazil, a saxophonist from Detroit who recorded with John Coltrane, teaches the History of Jazz, the most popular class in the School of Music. He frequently brings leading jazz artists to perform in class – Earl “Fatha” Hines, Dizzy Gillespie, McCoy Tyner, and many more.<br />
<br />
“I’ll accept this,” says President John Hogness, “and I’ll have an answer.” Ed Woodley, head of the Black Student Union isn’t satisfied. “We’re tired of waiting and getting no answers.” The protesters head for their next stop.<br />
<br />
Behind locked doors, police guard the Music Building. Five uniformed officers secure the west door, eight at the north, and ten at the east. More strolled through the corridors. Classes were cancelled. Outside, the crowd chants “Justice for Joe!”<br />
<br />
Brazil had been denied tenure by the School of Music faculty during the previous school year. No public notice of the meeting was given and no minutes had been taken. Protestors believed this procedure violated the Open Meetings Act enacted in 1971 by the Washington State Legislature.<br />
<br />
“It’s unfortunate it had to come to this,” says Brazil. “Hopefully people came here to learn.” Brazil is not vengeful. He tells the crowd that many of the people voting against his tenure are “just dumb, not mean.”<br />
<br />
<b>The Detroit Jazz Scene</b><br />
<br />
Joseph Brazil was born in Detroit on August 25, 1927. He studied saxophone at the Detroit Institute of Music and Conservatory of Music. After graduating from Cass Technical High School in 1946, he joined the US Army and was stationed for a year at Geiger Field near Spokane, Washington. There, he performed in a band with other enlisted men. They called themselves the G.I. Jazzmen of Geiger Field.<br />
<br />
Brazil returned to Detroit and got a job at Chrysler as a tool maker and inspector. He purchased a home with one of his brothers and outfitted the basement with a bar, baby grand piano, and chess boards. Soon, talented local musicians and touring artists crowded into the small room to jam. Visitors included trumpeter Donald Byrd, saxophonist Sonny Red, pianist Barry Harris, bassist Doug Watkins, and drummer Roy Brooks. When saxophonist John Coltrane was in town in September of 1958, he stopped by to jam with Joe Henderson and Brazil. A recording from the session is available on YouTube. The tempo on “Sweet Georgia Brown” is clocked at a blistering 350 beats per minute. Brazil made many recordings at his house, even Coltrane practicing.<br />
<br />
Detroit jazz chronicler Jim Gallert interviewed musicians about Brazil’s jams. “Everybody you can name used to come by those sessions,” recalls drummer Bert Myrick in <i>Before Motown</i>. “I talked to Trane for about an hour, sitting on the basement steps.” Brazil made a space where a community of jazz artists could hang out, learn, play, and build relationships free from commercial constraints.<br />
<br />
Brazil and Coltrane established a lasting relationship. In Alice Coltrane’s biography Monument Eternal, pianist Kenneth Cox says that Alice McLeod met her future husband John Coltrane in Brazil’s basement.<br />
<br />
<b>Brazil in Seattle</b><br />
<br />
Brazil got a tool making job at Boeing and moved to Seattle in September of 1961. Two years later he enrolled at the University of Washington to study math and computer programming. He got a job as a mechanical technician at the UW Applied Physics Lab in 1965 and was promoted to a computer programming job in 1967.<br />
<br />
Meanwhile, Brazil made a splash on the local music scene. He gigged at the Seattle World’s Fair, appeared with trumpeter Webster Young at the Red Rooster, singer Woody Woodhouse at the Mardi Gras, bassist Rufus Reid at the Checkmate, saxophonist Charles Lloyd at Seward Park, and led the house band at the Penthouse with pianist Jerry Gray, bassist Chuck Metcalf, and drummer George Griffin. The Penthouse band played Saturday afternoon matinee sets before national touring acts.<br />
<br />
One notable group came to the Penthouse the last week of September in 1965. Coltrane was touring after the release of his award winning album <i>A Love Supreme</i>. The band stayed at the Frye Hotel but Coltrane spent the week at Brazil’s house. Coltrane was interested in documenting the new direction of his ensemble so he paid out of his own pocket for a live recording at the Penthouse and a studio session in Lynnwood. Brazil sat in on saxophone at the Penthouse and played flute in the studio. The live recording was released as <i>Live in Seattle</i> and the studio date as <i>Om</i>.<br />
<br />
Brazil began to dedicate himself to sharing music with young students and using his extensive network of musical relationships to connect interested students with mature artists. In 1968 Garfield High School initiated a “magnet” program which included fine-arts curricula. Brazil was hired to teach jazz. Also, Brazil taught in the Summer Emphasis on Education and Knowledge (SEEK) program at Garfield. He also headed the music program for the Seattle Public Schools Extended Services Program (ESP).<br />
<br />
Brazil joined a steering committee of black leaders to address issues of justice, schools, jobs, community education, racism, economics, and political power. He founded the Black Academy of Music “dedicated to uplifting the consciousness of people through music.” Faculty included trumpeter Floyd Standifer, saxophonist Jabbo Ward, and bassist Milt Garred. Brazil raised funds to bring saxophonist Joe Henderson to Washington prisons. One of Brazil’s students, Gary Hammon, received one of the first scholarships to attend the New England Conservatory.<br />
<b><br /></b>
<b>Jazz Studies in Academia</b><br />
<br />
The Civil Rights Act of 1965 and the Black Power movement led white universities throughout the United States to develop Black Studies programs. American universities needed graduates to know about American culture and music, including jazz. The Music Educators National Conference (MENC) created the National Association of Jazz Educators (NAJE) at a 1968 meeting in Seattle.<br />
<br />
Several jazz artists joined the faculties of prominent American universities – trombonist David Baker, trumpeter Donald Byrd, saxophonists Archie Shepp, Jackie Mclean, and Nathan Davis, pianists Mary Lou Williams and Cecil Taylor, and drummer Max Roach. Seattle’s participation in this national trend brought Joe Brazil to the University of Washington.<br />
<br />
<b>Black Studies at the University of Washington</b><br />
<br />
In early 1968, the UW Black Student Union (BSU) surveyed the 834 classes in the school’s catalog. None of the School of Music classes used materials by or about black people. “It was audacious and outrageous,” says BSU organizer Larry Gossett (now Chair of the King County Council), “that all the classes focused on European music even though the most creative, innovative, and distinctly American music came from blacks.” The BSU concluded that the UW was “institutionally racist.”<br />
<br />
The head of the BSU, E. J. Brisker, called UW President Charles Odegaard and demanded that the university provide $50,000 to create a Black Studies program. With no money forthcoming, 70 BSU members and friends occupied Odegaard’s office. Odegaard agreed to the BSU’s demands which included hiring black representatives on the music faculty, specifically saxophonists Joe Brazil and Byron Pope to teach jazz.<br />
<b><br /></b>
<b>Jazz at the University of Washington</b><br />
<br />
Within a week the Dean of the College of Arts and Sciences established a Special Curriculum Committee on Black American Culture. Brazil and Pope submitted a proposal for a Black Music curriculum to the School of Music. A single faculty position was opened. Brazil refused to compete with Pope for the job. Pope was hired to begin teaching in the fall.<br />
<br />
Pope taught the History of Jazz three days a week, gave private lessons, worked with the jazz ensemble, and performed twice on the UW Jazz concert series. At the end of the school year Pope recommended that the curriculum and faculty be expanded to include all forms of Black Music and that the program move from the School of Music to Ethnomusicology. These suggestions were ignored. Pope left the UW.<br />
<b><br /></b>
<b>Brazil in the School of Music</b><br />
<br />
Without a teacher for the History of Jazz class, the Acting Director for the School of Music, John Moore, urged Brazil to take over. Drummer Garry Owens volunteered to be Brazil’s Teaching Assistant. “Joe was the hub to bring the music and history together and serve as an inspiration,” says Owens. “He didn’t come to write books. He came to play and teach. He taught me that I could be a revolutionary in art – defend it, keep playing, and keep hope alive.” Today Owens manages projects for the Seattle Department of Neighborhoods.<br />
<br />
Bassist Jeffrey Winston also worked as a Teaching Assistant for Brazil. “Joe was a voice in the wilderness,” says Winston. “He wasn’t credentialed so he got no respect. He devoted his life to spreading the word about the music.” Today Winston produces jazz concerts in Los Angeles for World Stage Stories and serves as secretary for the California Jazz Foundation.<br />
<br />
<b>Herbie Hancock at UW?</b><br />
<br />
At the end of the school year the BSU demanded that the School of Music engage a Jazz Ensemble in Residence. Herbie Hancock’s Mwandishi ensemble was in Seattle for a jazz festival concert. Brazil held the group over at the Club Ebony for a week and brought Hancock to speak in the History of Jazz class. Over lunch, the Director of the School of Music, William Bergsma, discussed the possibility of having Hancock’s band in residence at UW.<br />
<br />
Because there was no budget for additional faculty, Bergsma turned to the Rockefeller Foundation for financial support. Bergsma developed a community-wide plan that included students from the Seattle Public Schools and Cornish School of Allied Arts. Brazil’s teaching role in Seattle Public Schools was mentioned in the plan as a prototype. The proposal requested $333,889 for three years beginning in the summer of 1971.<br />
<br />
The Rockefeller Foundation offered $100,000 over a two year period. The Foundation’s Director, Norman Lloyd, wrote, “I was impressed with every aspect of the jazz proposal. There is a real chance that if it gets started it could serve as a model, particularly for other institutions that understand the importance of jazz in our culture but have not discovered how to deal with it in academia.”<br />
<br />
The UW Archives have documents declaring Brazil and others agreed “it was unrealistic to start such a large scale project with little prospect of continuing” and withdrew the application. But other documents indicate that Sam Kelly, Vice President of Minority Affairs said “there was no consensus opinion by the black members of the committee who were involved in submitting the proposal.” The next year Bergsma left the School of Music and the proposal was never resubmitted.<br />
<b><br /></b>
<b>Cracks Widen Between Brazil and UW</b><br />
<br />
Brazil considered resigning from the School of Music. David Llorens, the Director of Black Studies urged Brazil to stay and wrote a letter to support a promotion. “Clearly, the School of Music has been treating Mr. Brazil like a stepchild. It is entirely possible that they do not know that he is a superior man in his field, one whose experience is invaluable to the program in jazz music, and the Black Studies program, at this university.”<br />
<br />
The Black Studies Executive Committee recommended to Director Moore that Brazil be promoted. Carver Gayton, Director of Equal Opportunities for Minorities pointed out that Brazil and the two other blacks received the lowest salaries among the school’s faculty. Brazil was promoted from Lecturer to Assistant Professor in 1972 with his salary split between the School of Music and the Black Studies program.<br />
<br />
Tensions between the School of Music and Brazil rose. Brazil continued to bring some of the biggest names in jazz to campus through his personal connections and taped their performances for student use, but the School of Music was not supportive. Director Moore contacted the local Musicians Union to try to prevent Brazil from video recording McCoy Tyner’s concert.<br />
<br />
<b>Black Composers</b><br />
<br />
Brazil rubbed the faculty of the School of Music the wrong way when he addressed the African American Cultural Festival at Whitman College. He mentioned emerging research that suggested Beethoven and Hadyn had black ancestry.<br />
<br />
In 1973 Brazil proposed a course on the life and music of Duke Ellington. The Seattle Times reported that the School of Music said “it possibly would accept a course on the history of outstanding black composers, not naming anyone.” Ellington died in 1974. Brazil was decades ahead of his time. Today Northwest High Schools win national contests playing Ellington’s music.<br />
<b><br /></b>
<b>The Votes Are In</b><br />
<br />
The end of Brazil’s employment at UW was sealed at a meeting of the senior School of Music faculty on October 17, 1974. The Black Studies faculty voted unanimously to grant tenure but the School of Music voted to deny tenure, citing a “travesty of classroom teaching,” playing recordings with minimal analysis, anecdotal discussions, lecturing from LeRoi Jones’ book <i>Blues People</i>, simple final exams, arriving late for class, and not attending committee meetings. The College Council ignored the Black Studies vote and unanimously agreed with the School of Music decision. Brazil’s appointment would end after the 1975-76 school year.<br />
<br />
Student petitions to retain Brazil collected about 1,000 names. Brazil requested an investigation by Carver Gayton, the Director for Equal Opportunities of Minorities, for possible racial discrimination. “Mr. Brazil has brought the greatest array of top name Black Jazz musicians to this campus over the past five years than ever before in its history,” said Gayton in a letter to the Director of the School of Music. “I truly do not know of anyone who could have been able to accomplish as much as has Mr. Brazil over such a short period of time.”<br />
<br />
Because the tenure meeting was not publicly announced and no minutes were kept, Brazil filed a suit in King County Superior Court for violation of the Open Meetings Act. He did not ask for tenure in his suit. He asked that each faculty member who violated the Act pay the penalty named in the law ($100) and that his tenure decision meeting be open to the public. The Court dismissed the case.<br />
<br />
As Brazil’s career at UW drew to a close, protests and press coverage increased. Ironically, while the UW was ignoring Brazil’s role in the community, the King of Sweden, Carl Gustof, presented Brazil with a service award for the Black Academy of Music.<br />
<b><br /></b>
<b>The More Things Change</b><br />
<br />
Brazil was replaced by Milton Stewart, a black professor from the University of Michigan. He was treated with even less respect than Brazil. When Stewart was denied tenure in 1982, he wrote to the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP). “They desperately wanted me because I was a black person with a Ph.D. in music who taught jazz and other Afro-American music courses,” wrote Stewart. “One of their ‘reasons’ for terminating Joe Brazil was that he didn’t have academic credentials. I was used as a foil to make what they were doing to Mr. Brazil appear legitimate.”<br />
<br />
<b>Brazil Moves On</b><br />
<br />
Brazil moved to Bellingham then Tacoma. He received recognition as an Elder of Distinction at the Pantages Theater during Black History Month in 2007. Brazil died August 6, 2008. A year later, his former student Gary Hammon organized a concert and celebration of Brazil’s life in Flo Ware Park.<br />
<br />
People who knew Brazil remember him fondly. “Joe was way cool,” says organist Mikal Majeed. “He tried to influence us in the real music. He introduced us to progressive jazz. Joe tried to hook us up with the basics.” “Everyone knew Joe,” says Hammon. “Whenever I mentioned his name back east, people opened up to me.” Drummer George Griffin says, “Joe should have got more credit than he did. He was a well-educated man and always had something good to say.”Steve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-90447331316060323022018-02-17T11:29:00.001-08:002021-06-01T06:30:37.905-07:00Joe's ParentsA few hours of research on the internet yielded photos of Joe's parents.<br />
<br />
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<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg8l-zNgrBh_HP-wL4veIJ4J4UsFaclEqdHycIV8WbOOaAcnouCfE4olITpMgU5rc4kbvzNCSqo6BiWV2wETAa2j65ZfgKc6znsAHm5pkIxCyyrFOx7ja_hpv9CmVGgdG3-z37k8sw5dbk/s1600/Hilliard+Brazil.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="1200" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg8l-zNgrBh_HP-wL4veIJ4J4UsFaclEqdHycIV8WbOOaAcnouCfE4olITpMgU5rc4kbvzNCSqo6BiWV2wETAa2j65ZfgKc6znsAHm5pkIxCyyrFOx7ja_hpv9CmVGgdG3-z37k8sw5dbk/s320/Hilliard+Brazil.jpg" width="240" /></a></div>
Hilliard Brazil was born 9/6/1895 in Laurens County, GA to Charlie Brazeal and Mary Lou Hardy. He had 1 sister and 1 brother. Hilliard and Ida Hill married in December of 1926 in Detroit. He worked at the Ford factory. Hilliard filed for divorce on 10/17/1938 which was granted on 4/1/1940. He married Lillian Armstrong 7/31/1939. Hilliard and Lillian had two children, Harold and Maude Elizabeth. Hilliard died 3/13/1980 in Oakland, CA.<br />
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<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjQRuvnZi9r2mHz42XUY-Z-wFZvSL_6hjN9PgKuzJLeIJxUiVtEX0dVblxQZzAGcBfKpbh-de2frLb5-ANn7036es0JMFsfNVeDqYE9Y0gpGcKAHpllriz3sAdYLCadq5M9vaxtQpWyjkU/s1600/Ida+Hill+Brazil.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="1200" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjQRuvnZi9r2mHz42XUY-Z-wFZvSL_6hjN9PgKuzJLeIJxUiVtEX0dVblxQZzAGcBfKpbh-de2frLb5-ANn7036es0JMFsfNVeDqYE9Y0gpGcKAHpllriz3sAdYLCadq5M9vaxtQpWyjkU/s320/Ida+Hill+Brazil.jpg" width="240" /></a></div>
Ida Hill was born 2/8/1907 in Twiggs County, GA to Harrison Hill and Mariah Brown (or Burns). She had 4 sisters and 6 brothers. She gave birth to Zodis Brazil 5/6/1924. She gave birth to Joe Brazil on 8/25/1927. She worked as a maid. She died 12/4/1950 in Detroit.Steve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-69219435060438015722017-10-31T15:36:00.002-07:002021-06-01T14:33:18.622-07:00Gary Hammon on Joe Brazil<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgeyUxRUQcbAC5da7eqKFkfGX1LDkkogkIq0_kuuZMPwKNmvinbuttkP3Ax9TwN54vYJpYYiMyXtps0q0Zi17kKNSBX6VITl_lDKz2gzpUHbIGdp8YUi98V3JVMtvUT6ukQzkM7QalPVhI/s1813/Gary+Hammon.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="578" data-original-width="1813" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgeyUxRUQcbAC5da7eqKFkfGX1LDkkogkIq0_kuuZMPwKNmvinbuttkP3Ax9TwN54vYJpYYiMyXtps0q0Zi17kKNSBX6VITl_lDKz2gzpUHbIGdp8YUi98V3JVMtvUT6ukQzkM7QalPVhI/s320/Gary+Hammon.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><br />Gary Hammon talks about Joe Brazil around the 16:45 mark.<br />
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<iframe frameborder="0" height="120" src="https://www.mixcloud.com/widget/iframe/?hide_cover=1&light=1&feed=%2FRainierAvenueRadio%2Fhere-and-now-9%2F" width="100%"></iframe>Steve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-90223318581335088652017-10-29T12:03:00.001-07:002021-06-01T14:35:37.315-07:00Lonnie Williams talks about Joe Brazil<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiu6U1UBOW9OF2hhdZnecIHvWnPHyGTU2KcF4B5a2r2gincY81_1isf6pA6vgGFs7Tuo2h-b6rGJ-_JDzTsQkFnzJk9wRjhrWPpx5RbC79Z3oPg75SR3SPC-OS-Apec0PuIjDYIsVf7Ok4/s526/Lonnie+Williams.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="526" data-original-width="441" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiu6U1UBOW9OF2hhdZnecIHvWnPHyGTU2KcF4B5a2r2gincY81_1isf6pA6vgGFs7Tuo2h-b6rGJ-_JDzTsQkFnzJk9wRjhrWPpx5RbC79Z3oPg75SR3SPC-OS-Apec0PuIjDYIsVf7Ok4/s320/Lonnie+Williams.jpg" /></a></div><br /><div><br /></div><iframe frameborder="0" height="120" src="https://www.mixcloud.com/widget/iframe/?hide_cover=1&light=1&feed=%2FRainierAvenueRadio%2Fhere-now-5%2F" width="100%"></iframe><br />Steve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-13953181500572283132017-10-20T11:22:00.000-07:002021-06-01T06:32:29.467-07:00"Joseph Brazil" Performed at KNKX<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/g8jJi8Dth0c" width="560"></iframe><br />
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This is the overture to A Cup of Joe Brazil, an original program of stories and music about the Detroit-born saxophonist who taught jazz history at UW. Vibraphonist Susan Pascal's husband Dave worked in one of Joe's bands. Trumpeter Jay Thomas' first jam session was with Joe Brazil.Steve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-35759622298636740352017-10-20T11:13:00.001-07:002021-06-01T06:32:35.280-07:00A Cup of Joe Brazil on Playback<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgKXPh9VLa_dhJKYf_PvuscljT18ssX5mTj6H4ruNY6rg9YubtYX1Npvxdg0C-axZ4o_YZZ_8vkaLOTlg0HjW6K9hv8QTeXat2z5WYhP8pAkK5iHgWCUz_-G33gzI3Y5QkQfXHbaVtPosU/s1600/playback-local-music-collection_banner-575.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="160" data-original-width="575" height="89" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgKXPh9VLa_dhJKYf_PvuscljT18ssX5mTj6H4ruNY6rg9YubtYX1Npvxdg0C-axZ4o_YZZ_8vkaLOTlg0HjW6K9hv8QTeXat2z5WYhP8pAkK5iHgWCUz_-G33gzI3Y5QkQfXHbaVtPosU/s320/playback-local-music-collection_banner-575.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>
You can listen to A Cup of Joe Brazil for free at the Seattle Public Library Playback site: <a href="https://playback.spl.org/albums/steve-griggs-ensemble-a-cup-of-joe-brazil" target="_blank">https://playback.spl.org/albums/steve-griggs-ensemble-a-cup-of-joe-brazil</a>Steve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-47407886220424642192017-10-11T12:27:00.001-07:002021-06-01T06:33:11.323-07:00Lyrics to "Joseph Brazil"<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi1eMmcXdws8fquW9WsiZEYu4DC-sSYVdLndhTcUyuN-165-uw-EHAbY4736UCqCoWJZlicwbK5bV5jK8ljGgDKux0EDPeOsPLxNBmFA8_G0zURArO2hdA_GWEQHHlccrHn4esGSohRvDg/s1600/ACupofJoeBrazilfront.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="1600" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi1eMmcXdws8fquW9WsiZEYu4DC-sSYVdLndhTcUyuN-165-uw-EHAbY4736UCqCoWJZlicwbK5bV5jK8ljGgDKux0EDPeOsPLxNBmFA8_G0zURArO2hdA_GWEQHHlccrHn4esGSohRvDg/s320/ACupofJoeBrazilfront.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>
I wrote lyrics to the first track on A Cup of Joe Brazil even though they were not recorded.<br />
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"Joseph Brazil, black music will show us to live and to love, not to kill.<br />
Joseph Brazil, teaches us still - look for the truth and the search is the thrill.<br />
No one stops you. No one tops you.<br />
Joseph Brazil, black music will lift us to equal the king of the hill."Steve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-31594375059503538432017-10-08T11:25:00.002-07:002017-10-08T11:28:09.983-07:00Joe Brazil Listed in Credits of TV Movie<iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Qzv4tO4W__E?rel=0&start=4395" width="560"></iframe>Steve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-58922767731165107752017-10-04T16:38:00.003-07:002017-10-08T10:22:11.262-07:00Press Release for "The Secret Life of John Chapman"<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiq-0sx0EVMIBGma8xe7TAXtO8i2vnqEtyEawybQ6RJPaRRVPzRxDIF4YymprW-ezbTxbP23hHRrpD_PkHz95hFJ9ooN6GK7YmDYe8JyQbp8x3cywVQdHf7Q7G75B0TtqjvD3-o1ViRYW4/s1600/John+Chapman.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="563" data-original-width="412" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiq-0sx0EVMIBGma8xe7TAXtO8i2vnqEtyEawybQ6RJPaRRVPzRxDIF4YymprW-ezbTxbP23hHRrpD_PkHz95hFJ9ooN6GK7YmDYe8JyQbp8x3cywVQdHf7Q7G75B0TtqjvD3-o1ViRYW4/s320/John+Chapman.jpg" width="234" /></a></div>
I have recently acquired an original press release from CBS that lists the cast of "The Secret Life of John Chapman." Joe Brazil plays the role of Boss.Steve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-3837939814224311602017-10-04T16:36:00.002-07:002021-06-01T06:34:05.020-07:00Reggie Workman on Joe Brazil<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjvKENa5kzxiAjFytwnRmRTwTXTo1nsjZQE2idXmXp8_rs_9vBvRzK4WP7YkXMOFPNOov4GyQGIXfSVoNB6zpllaFKa6GEJlVRc9k8jjKCNq22k2-VVoYKVLfpT11dg6Gr_b_AK-7JHJkE/s1600/Bill+T+Jones.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="720" data-original-width="960" height="240" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjvKENa5kzxiAjFytwnRmRTwTXTo1nsjZQE2idXmXp8_rs_9vBvRzK4WP7YkXMOFPNOov4GyQGIXfSVoNB6zpllaFKa6GEJlVRc9k8jjKCNq22k2-VVoYKVLfpT11dg6Gr_b_AK-7JHJkE/s320/Bill+T+Jones.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>
During a panel discussion of A Love Supreme hosted by Bill T. Jones, bassist Reggie Workman told a story about Joe Brazil bringing a car full of books to a meeting on Black Culture. I plan to share more of this story soon. In the picture are (left to right) Bill T. Jones, Ashley Kahn, John Lewis, Reggie Workman. Photo by Yasuhiro Fujioka.Steve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-68851836202229427342017-08-22T10:53:00.002-07:002021-06-01T06:34:11.776-07:00Free concert in Blanche Lavizzo Park<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi5l3GK3cPAlE27Zh-sPTnfgqk9LLdpG3mNKer2a87JE-kBt1jFXPRlvP513jhnJZzHq-21bGu8s_CI1XObGhAOpvpbDRTql7499D1lkGUCBWibeq45u6WDDt65Aab663ht0XyiwZ2-Qfw/s1600/ACupofJoeBrazilfront.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="1600" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEi5l3GK3cPAlE27Zh-sPTnfgqk9LLdpG3mNKer2a87JE-kBt1jFXPRlvP513jhnJZzHq-21bGu8s_CI1XObGhAOpvpbDRTql7499D1lkGUCBWibeq45u6WDDt65Aab663ht0XyiwZ2-Qfw/s320/ACupofJoeBrazilfront.jpg" width="320" /></a></div>
One day after Joe Brazil's 90th birthday we will celebrate with a free presentation of A Cup of Joe Brazil at 1pm August 26 in the Blanche Lavizzo Park amphitheater (2100 S. Jackson). The performance is sponsored by the Office of Arts & Culture Arts in the Parks Program.Steve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-38854264775029948892016-11-25T07:58:00.001-08:002021-06-01T06:34:20.442-07:00CD Release 7:30 December 5 at the Royal Room<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjLjvZItdx9A0I2fhdm0_7gyvJyPHsNpQg4lwOB6g-dBxOm4X_sODinuYw37ni2kifVu5rsxmjU_l5PSPicQPYr5brquMbQUWeOnIcP-_lc_BzvFWL8L12r4rU9K1B6eLhLDuKRStG-93Q/s1600/RoyalRoom_int2_cred_Sarah_Barrick.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjLjvZItdx9A0I2fhdm0_7gyvJyPHsNpQg4lwOB6g-dBxOm4X_sODinuYw37ni2kifVu5rsxmjU_l5PSPicQPYr5brquMbQUWeOnIcP-_lc_BzvFWL8L12r4rU9K1B6eLhLDuKRStG-93Q/s320/RoyalRoom_int2_cred_Sarah_Barrick.jpg" width="208" /></a></div>
A Cup of Joe Brazil will be released 7:30 December 5 at the Royal Room (5000 Rainier Ave S, Seattle). Tickets available at <a href="http://www.strangertickets.com/events/39361409/a-cup-of-joe-brazil-cd-release-by-the-steve-griggs-ensemble" target="_blank">www.strangertickets.com</a>. The CD was recorded and mixed by Doug Haire at Jack Straw and mastered by Rick Fisher at Resonant Mastering.Steve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-38433850235781159762016-10-10T15:05:00.003-07:002021-06-01T12:22:52.939-07:00Black Spokane<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjjCEbZc8Yy8hVuFMcsypeSHy7b4TUp_D8W98CYlbYLekOakqNJXa924nlZZHtpXFp_V10JdlDme2j53evKjTlzoumiOg6rqsKQUVNAvdBrYO5dMUW6ZqqLKatHt2W1-ntgLVwji1Hnbbs/s1600/blackspokane.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjjCEbZc8Yy8hVuFMcsypeSHy7b4TUp_D8W98CYlbYLekOakqNJXa924nlZZHtpXFp_V10JdlDme2j53evKjTlzoumiOg6rqsKQUVNAvdBrYO5dMUW6ZqqLKatHt2W1-ntgLVwji1Hnbbs/s320/blackspokane.jpg" width="211" /></a></div>
Dwayne Mack wrote about the black community in Spokane and the impact of soldiers at Geiger Air Field where Joe Brazil served.Steve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-6678002126745539572016-04-19T12:20:00.001-07:002021-06-01T06:34:29.407-07:00Phil Lasley talks about Joe Brazil<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiFvoYayxpPXBqXZ_-GpiRHr7P7t-rmwU_-FANP_2VGqRQ2IHqZq_Ns8Wt4BC5VxCJj9MQFgO7KnU-sDyf73LBgkoI6VfOF0-kBIdIHAyfhhKmafJWE24HfX5S5POAt_X2eckCpH-fj7HM/s1600/djs_logo_144.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiFvoYayxpPXBqXZ_-GpiRHr7P7t-rmwU_-FANP_2VGqRQ2IHqZq_Ns8Wt4BC5VxCJj9MQFgO7KnU-sDyf73LBgkoI6VfOF0-kBIdIHAyfhhKmafJWE24HfX5S5POAt_X2eckCpH-fj7HM/s1600/djs_logo_144.jpg" style="cursor: move;" /></a><span style="background-color: white; color: #141823; font-family: "helvetica" , "arial" , sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 19.32px;">Detroit saxophonist Phil Lasley talks about Joe Brazil at 18:25 on this podcast from Detroit Jazz Stage. <a href="http://castroller.com/podcasts/DetroitJazzstage/2789889" target="_blank">http://castroller.com/podcasts/DetroitJazzstage/2789889</a></span>Steve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-29443382468236328722016-04-01T09:55:00.001-07:002021-06-01T06:34:54.086-07:00Kenn Cox talks about Joe Brazil<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vy9FEjsBVvY#t=24:09" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>Steve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-48294468080594576072016-03-02T09:23:00.002-08:002021-06-01T06:48:17.771-07:00Detroit was a university without walls<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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"I had a rich environment, it was like a university without walls, I have to say that and we
all looked and there are guys you don’t even know about who were there that we played with and were helping each other and teaching us. It was just a great exchange. It was all
about the music and reaching for that level of being really good. So we had a lot of
discussions about material, about songs, and I think we developed some pretty
sophisticated taste, in terms of what’s good and what isn’t and how to discern the good
from the mediocre. And all of that is learning, especially when you’re a teenager is
invaluable. So like I say, it was like a university. So when we got to New York we really
felt like we were prepared." - Kenny Burrell, Smithsonian Jazz Oral HistorySteve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6570216844901899170.post-15401431236073754712016-01-30T13:04:00.002-08:002021-06-01T06:48:34.996-07:00Sonny Red<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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Anders Svanoe published research of Sonny Red in The Annual Review of Jazz Studies in 2007. Like Sonny, Joe's family moved to Detroit from the south. Anders conducted many interviews with Detroit musicians. Below are mentions of Joe Brazil from Anders' research.<br />
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"I remember seeing Red a few times down at Joe Brazil's. I first started to play drums by going down to Joe Brazil's. The way I got there was Doug Watkins, the bass player, pulled me over there since Doug and I went to the same high school. Anyway, he was telling me to go sit in, and I told him that I wasn't ready yet. But he told me to come on by there anyway. So I went there and sat in with Barry on piano, Joe Brazil [on alto saxophone], Donald Byrd [on trumpet], and Doug Watkins on bass. They played a tempo, extremely fast, and somehow or another I kept that tempo, and that's what opened the door for me. They said that the next time they were going to give me a call, and they did." - Frank Gant<br />
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"Joe Brazil was important on the scene and a good friend of Coltrane's. That was perfect for Trane. This was a place, just free to him, to play as long as he wanted to." - Tommy Flanagan<br />
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"I remember one session that we did at Joe Brazil's place. We did a lot of jam sessions down there. Sonny was there and sometimes Barry, Ko-Ko [Kenneth "Cokie" Winfrey], the tenor player, used to live down at Joe's place, so he'd always be there for the sessions. That was around 1955 or 1956. I lived right down the street, so I was there a lot." - Kiane Zawadi<br />
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<br />Steve Griggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10687012846579957525noreply@blogger.com0